31 replies to this topic

[VirtualRiot]

I think I speak for everyone when I say how frustrating it is to get an amazing match score, be defeated, and earn only mediocre c-bills. Many moons ago I played a game the was experiencing a similar problem, and the forums raged, so a new system was implemented and heres how it worked.

Both teams have a payout pool. For example (and this is just an example), the winning team would receive a flat payout pool of 1.8 million c-bills (150k/player), and the losing team would receive a flat payout pool of 1.2 million c-bills (100k/player).

At the end of the match the scored of players on each team would be added up, and you would receive a payout based on your total % contribution to the total match score of your team.
For example, you are on the losing team, but you do really great and get a match score of 500. The total match score for your team at the end is 2150. You earned ~23% of the total match score for your entire team so you receive ~23% of the total payout pool, ~279,000 c-bills.

To me this seems like a more fair system that correctly rewards skilled play instead of whether or not the team wins or loses. It worked for that particular game and I think it would definitely work in this one and quell a lot of the rage on these forums about how rewards are payed out.

[Rhaythe]

The payouts in Mechwarrior Online will always be less than ideal. This is a result of this title being free-to-play. Part of the marketing scheme in F2P models is introducing the grind, which is artificial incentive to purchase premium time (among other consumable elements).

In effect, due to the nature of this title's publishing model, earning c-bills without premium time active will *always* be less than ideal, otherwise you would have no incentive to buy the premium time or hero mechs.

Not saying this is good or bad. There are certainly worse ways to run F2P. But it is what it is.

[Amsro]

Fair is fair, but is anything ever fair?

Paul say's no.

[VirtualRiot]

Rhaythe, on 02 September 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

The payouts in Mechwarrior Online will always be less than ideal. This is a result of this title being free-to-play. Part of the marketing scheme in F2P models is introducing the grind, which is artificial incentive to purchase premium time (among other consumable elements).

In effect, due to the nature of this title's publishing model, earning c-bills without premium time active will *always* be less than ideal, otherwise you would have no incentive to buy the premium time or hero mechs.

Not saying this is good or bad. There are certainly worse ways to run F2P. But it is what it is.

I'm not arguing that payouts are not ideal (I understand how the f2p system works and the game I reference that used this model was also a f2p shooter), just that this would over all, be a better system than what we currently have regardless of whether or not you have premium time.

[nehebkau]

VirtualRiot, on 02 September 2015 - 08:12 AM, said:

At the end of the match the scored of players on each team would be added up, and you would receive a payout based on your total % contribution to the total match score of your team.
For example, you are on the losing team, but you do really great and get a match score of 500. The total match score for your team at the end is 2150. You earned ~23% of the total match score for your entire team so you receive ~23% of the total payout pool, ~279,000 c-bills.

One problem, new players (who are usually the lowest scorers) or people who inadvertently picked sub-standard mechs (etc.etc) would end up getting consistently screwed on cbills. In the case of new players, the fastest way to make them quit is to give them a game where they earn nothing and can't buy new mechs or equipment.

[VirtualRiot]

nehebkau, on 02 September 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

One problem, new players (who are usually the lowest scorers) or people who inadvertently picked sub-standard mechs (etc.etc) would end up getting consistently screwed on cbills. In the case of new players, the fastest way to make them quit is to give them a game where they earn nothing and can't buy new mechs or equipment.

Optimally new players are matched against other new players or players of a similar skill level. The payout pool for a win or loss remains the same regardless of the teams total match score. For example if a new player is defeated and earns a match score of a mere 150, and the total match score for his team is 1910 ( in this example he did slightly worse than the average for the rest of his team) he would receive ~8% of the total payout pool which again is the same across all levels of play.

Also I would like to add that in the current system new players and people who play **** mechs are already screwed on c-bills so I dont see how this new system could be any "worse" for them.

Edited by VirtualRiot, 02 September 2015 - 08:27 AM.

[Lexx]

Players making a decent amount of c-bills without buying premium and a hero mech?

[VirtualRiot]

Lexx, on 02 September 2015 - 08:34 AM, said:

Players making a decent amount of c-bills without buying premium and a hero mech?

Again thats not when this is about. It not about increasing or decreasing total c-bill payout, just making it more fair. Notice how many times I say "example" in the OP.

[Chuck Jager]

The biggest difference I see is in assist bonuses not win or loose. IF the game is a landslide a single player may get a great score, but if there were not many kills they will not get the assist payouts.

I pretty much run clan cheese or IS quirk cheese and I do a decent job, but I notice other players may be 4v1 and they can not take down a mech or they die like flies. This may be player skill, but bad build variants make for a horrible TTK. I run the CHEESE because I can not control others, but I do like a good payout. If I run a "fun" or "special needs" mech my payout is lower and frustration is higher.

[Roadkill]

Your proposal would actually be less fair than the current system.

The current system rewards you for your individual performance, but your individual performance is restricted by your team's overall performance. If you get overrun 0-12 you're not going to earn much of anything no matter how well you (think you) did. If you lose 11-12, you got 5 kills and 6 assists, you were constantly helping teammates and pressuring the enemy, you used UAVs and other consumables... then you're going to make a mint win or lose.

Under your system those two losses would result in the same team earnings despite the fact that the latter example was clearly a better team performance.

[Khobai]

Instead of weighting the cbills based on performance. I think I should get 99% of all cbills. And the other 1% distributed to the rest of my team.

Because I only care about myself so why should anyone else get anything? That 1% is just me being generous.

[VirtualRiot]

Roadkill, on 02 September 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

Your proposal would actually be less fair than the current system.

The current system rewards you for your individual performance, but your individual performance is restricted by your team's overall performance. If you get overrun 0-12 you're not going to earn much of anything no matter how well you (think you) did. If you lose 11-12, you got 5 kills and 6 assists, you were constantly helping teammates and pressuring the enemy, you used UAVs and other consumables... then you're going to make a mint win or lose.

Under your system those two losses would result in the same team earnings despite the fact that the latter example was clearly a better team performance.

In the game I reference the payout pool would start low and increase the longer the game went on, that sort of addresses your concern.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Nvm, didn't read lol

Edited by ugrakarma, 02 September 2015 - 11:12 AM.

[WarHippy]

Rhaythe, on 02 September 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

The payouts in Mechwarrior Online will always be less than ideal. This is a result of this title being free-to-play. Part of the marketing scheme in F2P models is introducing the grind, which is artificial incentive to purchase premium time (among other consumable elements).

In effect, due to the nature of this title's publishing model, earning c-bills without premium time active will *always* be less than ideal, otherwise you would have no incentive to buy the premium time or hero mechs.

Not saying this is good or bad. There are certainly worse ways to run F2P. But it is what it is.

Not that I disagree with what you are saying, but even with premium time c-bill earnings are less than ideal.

[Roadkill]

WarHippy, on 02 September 2015 - 11:41 AM, said:

Not that I disagree with what you are saying, but even with premium time c-bill earnings are less than ideal.

Agreed. Premium time should be +100% at least. If you're paying for a subscription (effectively), then there shouldn't be a grind at all. The point of a grind is to encourage you to pay, but if you're using Premium Time you're already paying.

[TLBFestus]

There comes a point where the grind is detrimental to the game though.

That weak point is with new players. You can look at this two ways;

What I assume is PGIs way is that you make the grind difficult enough that new players are influenced to skip the grind by paying to avoid it, thereby generating income

The other way is what I'm thinking; New Players will see it as, An intolerable grind which simply makes them decide not worth it and leave the game. They don't get sufficiently invested in the game to want to spend money.

Look at World of Tanks. They have a grind, and as you move up the tiers it gets progressively harder. Initially though it's very simple to move up the first 4-5 tiers, so most new players progress, learn more about how to play, and eventually INVEST in the game.

MWO doesn't have tiers. There is no gradual increase to the grind, and I don't buy that the Cadet bonus is an adequate alternative to easing the grind because of the fundamental structure of the game PGI has chosen.

At the end of a decent cadet period most people will have enough to purchase at best 1 mech. They need 2 other variants to bring that mech anywhere near it's optimal potential, and the grind kicks them in the face immediately.

They need to fix this, either by increasing the payouts per match, or providing some other reward system to get these players invested in the game enough to INVEST their money. Give them a FREE mech and let them use their cadet bonus to start to customize it. Heck give them enough MC to buy a few colors, maybe a camo scheme so that they can dress their toy up.

In other words, "Sink the damn hook and reel that fish in".

Really, should they give a darn if long-term players are spenders or not? ON the surface, yes, but truth is at this point you are either a spender or you aren't. What they want to do is find a way to encourage new players to become spenders and I don't think their current system is effective.

PGI gives the impression that their company motto is "That which does not kill you only makes you stronger (if you bother to stick around)"

Edited by TLBFestus, 02 September 2015 - 01:32 PM.

[Xetelian]

I'd greatly appreciate a little more for a loss. Since this game provides mostly one sided stomps, the losing team gets nothing for rewards as they didn't kill any enemies or very few if any.

[Lorian Sunrider]

Hear ******* hear. I was supremely annoyed last night. Had a 2 kill, 6 assist match with 650 damage in a freaking Adder of all mechs, and got less than 100k and less than 800xp because we lost. Complete ********. While winning should indeed get you more match score should still play a bigger role in your payouts.

[Blue Boutique]

Lorian Sunrider, on 02 September 2015 - 01:42 PM, said:

Hear ******* hear. I was supremely annoyed last night. Had a 2 kill, 6 assist match with 650 damage in a freaking Adder of all mechs, and got less than 100k and less than 800xp because we lost. Complete ********. While winning should indeed get you more match score should still play a bigger role in your payouts.

Imagine how much less you get with the proposed system when you're forced to give up a third of your earnings to those who got 800 to 1k in damage alone

[Bill Lumbar]

Rhaythe, on 02 September 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

The payouts in Mechwarrior Online will always be less than ideal. This is a result of this title being free-to-play. Part of the marketing scheme in F2P models is introducing the grind, which is artificial incentive to purchase premium time (among other consumable elements).

In effect, due to the nature of this title's publishing model, earning c-bills without premium time active will *always* be less than ideal, otherwise you would have no incentive to buy the premium time or hero mechs.

Not saying this is good or bad. There are certainly worse ways to run F2P. But it is what it is.

Funny, IMO... payouts with PT are not Ideal. Seriously, I haven't played due to lack of desire and time in the last month. Working my a$$ right now, just got full custody of my son and filed it Pro Se against ex who retained an lawyer. Even with having cash right now, I simply can not support this model more then I already have invested. I did log onto the test servers and very briefly checked out the new training for new players or vets, it is a step in the right direction for sure...but seriously, this grind is BS! Don't know about others, but it has the opposite effect on me pulling out my wallet.