170 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Vlad Ward, on 03 September 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

No. It's really not emphasized any more with LRMs.

You get caught in a crap position with an uber meta Thunder-Wolf and you will vaporize before Betty has a chance to beep at you.

I literally copy-pasta'd a guy from two pages ago espousing that exact crap, btw.

And yes, LRMs are a noob crutch weapon. They are the noob crutch weapon. That's what they're supposed to be. It's not some slight to players who use them. It's what they are. They're the Titanfall Smart Pistol of MWO.

And yes, they do require less skill to use. Why? Because you don't have to aim. In an FPS. That's a pretty freaking huge deal.

Except you seem to not comprehend the differences between USING, and USING EFFECTIVELY.

LRMs, while easier to initially aim, require several seconds to acquire a lock, and then up to like 10 seconds to deliver their payload on target. During which time the for simply has to break line of sight for half a second, and your volley is totally wasted.

What hard counters are there for Gauss and Lazers again? Before your average LRM volley locks and arrives on target, I can unleash 2-3 (depending on range)volleys of Gauss, PPC, Laser Vomit and AC fire, and then duck into cover IMMEDIATELY, breaking the LRM lock.

The players who understand how to actually use their LRMs to minimize waste are few and far between.

Anyone that claims aiming is particularly a particularly hard skill in MWO is either an utter scrub, or lying. Being able to place your gauss, ppc etc shots to the same location, time after time, on moving targets, now that is the part that takes some degree of skill, though we still have some of the easest aiming mechanics of any FPS.

Any weapon is easy to use in MWO. IF LRMs were so simple then they WOULD be used in top tier play because they always use the optimum mix of simple to use effective to damage. They are not, because they are easy to use against scrubs, but very few can use them effectively against quality foes. Yet what Jman5 does is actually tougher than vomiting Gauss and Lasers, sorry to tell you.

[Sarlic]

Quote

And yes, LRMs are a noob crutch weapon. They are the noob crutch weapon. That's what they're supposed to be. It's not some slight to players who use them. It's what they are. They're the Titanfall Smart Pistol of MWO.

And yes, they do require less skill to use. Why? Because you don't have to aim. In an FPS. That's a pretty freaking huge deal.

LRMS do require some skill to shoot over objects. With Artemis it get's easier. Or walking and shooting with LRMs is a skill as well.

That you don't see it as a skill is your opinion.

Edited by Sarlic, 03 September 2015 - 01:46 PM.

[Pjwned]

Vlad Ward, on 03 September 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

No. It's really not emphasized any more with LRMs.

You get caught in a crap position with an uber meta Thunder-Wolf and you will vaporize before Betty has a chance to beep at you.

Lasers, ballistics, and SRMs don't have a minimum range like LRMs do, so yes actually positioning is more emphasized with LRMs.

Quote

I literally copy-pasta'd a guy from two pages ago espousing that exact crap, btw.

I didn't say it was zero.

Quote

And yes, LRMs are a noob crutch weapon. They are the noob crutch weapon. That's what they're supposed to be. It's not some slight to players who use them. It's what they are. They're the Titanfall Smart Pistol of MWO.

And yes, they do require less skill to use. Why? Because you don't have to aim. In an FPS. That's a pretty freaking huge deal.

...And I'm done, you're just back to ignoring the point again.

[Vlad Ward]

Right. Using and using effectively.

Know what most people call using direct fire effectively?

Bishop Steiner, on 03 September 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

Being able to place your gauss, ppc etc shots to the same location, time after time, on moving targets

Not easy to do. Easier than no scope 360 headshots in CS:GO? Probably. Easy? No. If it is for you, you should play comp.

Pjwned, on 03 September 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

Lasers, ballistics, and SRMs don't have a minimum range like LRMs do, so yes actually positioning is more emphasized with LRMs.

No, but they have this thing called maximum range. It's kinda important.

Sarlic, on 03 September 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

LRMS do require some skill to shoot over objects. With Artemis it get's easier. Or walking and shooting with LRMs is a skill as well.

That you don't see it as a skill is your opinion.

Sorry. I have never fired a laser while moving before. I did not realize this was an important game skill.

[M4rtyr]

Vlad Ward, on 03 September 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

Sorry. I have never fired a laser while moving before. I did not realize this was an important game skill.

Ok, have to say the post this is responding to is VERY rediculous.

[Pjwned]

Vlad Ward, on 03 September 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

No, but they have this thing called maximum range. It's kinda important.

If you're trying to fight enemies who are out of your range but within their range, then it's more than just a problem with positioning; either that or you're so ridiculously so far out of position that you have no recourse against a longer range mech, which is really hard to accomplish unless you try to be bad.

[Sarlic]

M4rtyr, on 03 September 2015 - 01:54 PM, said:

Ok, have to say the post this is responding to is VERY rediculous.

Nevermind i added Vlad on my ignore list. I'm open for a discussion, but not like this.

Edited by Sarlic, 03 September 2015 - 02:52 PM.

[TLBFestus]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 September 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:

well, there's the danger of projection for ya......
https://en.wikipedia...ical_projection

Projection is for wimps. Paranoia is where it's at.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

KraftySOT, on 03 September 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

They werent Thunder's though, theres no landmine to avoid here.

I have a huge amount of respect for Bishop. I have a huge amount of respect for his white knighting. I also know this game has "problems". Short comings. Things it could do better, things it doesnt do at all, 'pillars' it doesnt have. Im not saying the game is trash just because these exist or PGI should burn at the stake...I just want a better game. I want a better world. I want alot of things.

Its just frustrating, as it is in the real world, to see people argue over the merits of one idea or the other, or completely shout down those who say "Hey uh, I want more." Everyone wants more. Were all on the same side here. If you dont think PGI wants more too, youre crazy. If they had boat loads of cash fall from the sky again, theyd do all sorts of cool stuff. They arent trolling people into playing an average game, theyre doing the best they can. Its not personal. Its not personal when someone shoots down an idea, or has an idea either. We spend a hell of alot of time arguing with each other when we all pretty much want the same things. Id take a dozen ideas I dont like, if it made the game more complex and engrossing. If there was more to see and do.

My dear sir, I bet pgi is trying as hard as they can., They have to pay microsoft for the licence, thats a huge minus in the budget.. This is their first real project, before they were making these 5 dollar games. All good and so, but they prmised a shitton of stuff back in cb and like 6-9 months after that. You shouldve seen brian how many stuff he was promising, and explaining all the stuff they plan add- bla bla. Thats why iam angry at them. Some might say IGp bla bla others might blame the cryengine. Infact pgi is not a good developer.

They have the minimal viable attitude due to their previous buisness model. You ll never see much more than necessary here. If you are a bt fan, you might not mind that due to the fact that there is at least the game of your childhood alive.

All others dont care and have left the game, or rarely play.

ive seen threads like thiis many many times where really loyal fans just lost their faith and hope into this game and pgi. And this is sad ha? But at the same time i like it, its better to face the reality than to talk something good

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 03 September 2015 - 09:00 PM.

[Lily from animove]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 03 September 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

My dear sir, I bet pgi is trying as hard as they can., They have to pay microsoft for the licence, thats a huge minus in the budget.. This is their first real project, before they were making these 5 dollar games. All good and so, but they prmised a shitton of stuff back in cb and like 6-9 months after that. You shouldve seen brian how many stuff he was promising, and explaining all the stuff they plan add- bla bla. Thats why iam angry at them. Some might say IGp bla bla others might blame the cryengine. Infact pgi is not a good developer.

They have the minimal viable attitude due to their previous buisness model. You ll never see much more than necessary here. If you are a bt fan, you might not mind that due to the fact that there is at least the game of your childhood alive.

All others dont care and have left the game, or rarely play.

ive seen threads like thiis many many times where really loyal fans just lost their faith and hope into this game and pgi. And this is sad ha? But at the same time i like it, its better to face the reality than to talk something good

if you want to see a bad developer play dragons prophet.

at the beginning of a project, most stuff is a lot promisses because you probe an engine and develop the possibilities with it. Then when starting to code some stuff may reveal to not work as probed. Then custom code will be added and such. and most adds to another. Players need to be more carefull wiht their expectations, and yes devs should be a bit more careful with their promises.

Edited by Lily from animove, 08 September 2015 - 05:17 AM.

[VorpalAnvil]

Widowmaker1981, on 03 September 2015 - 04:20 AM, said:

I think you are confusing aiming skill with positioning.

Aiming in this game at anything bar a fast jinking light is incredibly easy. With all weapons. Its positioning yourself correctly to deal damage without receiving return damage that is the skill, and THAT is far, far easier with LRMs (assuming you can get locks, different story) than it is with any direct fire weapons.

LRMs allow easy damage without having to worry about whos shooting back at you. They are just very easily countered by MEDIOCRE players.

Fixed that for ya!