1142 replies to this topic

[Chef Kerensky]

Quote

Shift back to a maximum group size of 4 or less.
Each group needs to be created in a 1/1/1/1 fashion.

Hahahahaha oh my god

I bet the new players who don't have mechs in each weight class and need their friends to show them the ropes are gonna love this one.

[FunkyLilElf]

A big problem here is that people are basically proposing that PGI change the game at its base level from Mechwarrior to another form of a slightly more complex FPS like Call of Duty. If you remove the ability for groups to drop together, you are removing the unit tactics which is really at the heart of a game like this. I find absolutely no enjoyment from running around a field completely alone knowing that I have 5, 10, 11, n guys on my team unwilling to work with me or back me up for fear that they could get shot, or that their stats will take a hit, or they just don't feel like it or w/e the reason. That has zero appeal to me.

What I enjoy is getting together with the group that I joined, full of people that I enjoy dropping with and creating tactics based around mech compositions, terrain, style etc and seeing how it all works out. I want competition in this game. I want to run into EMP and SJR and a host full of other teams and groups. And honestly, I have run into plenty of groups that were not dropping together that still did incredibly well. Why? Because they chose to work together. Again, this is a team game and should always BE a team game.

To keep that balance, I would happily take longer queue times.

There have been suggestions of various flavors of allowing group drops as a selection, or multiple queues. I would ask that you give something like that a try well before changing the basic premise of the game.

[Chef Kerensky]

Here's the very real fact: mechs of differing weight classes do not work particularly well together and 1/1/1/1 is not conducive to good teamplay. Not even 12v12 is a large enough player pool to support tactics like "scouting" or "bringing up the rear guard" or whatever. Wolfpacking, deathballing, firing lines, whatever you want to call them - they're the smart way to play and punishing players for playing smartly instead of teaching them to coordinate and take advantage of the game's mechanics demonstrates entirely the wrong approach to bridging the skill gap. Cheers.

Edited by Chef Kerensky, 04 September 2015 - 09:52 AM.
offensive

[Chimperator]

Just bring back the max. 4 and the 12 only group queues and get back to the gamemode voting system for more balanced games and quicker matches.

max. 4 was the most balanced time..and 12men queue most competitive.

Why people join a unit? Yes, to play competitve as a team ! so let us do it!
Stomping pugs makes no sense, the groups who does it, have fun yea but how many people are sick of it because they get stomped? There are many who just dont play group queue anymore because of this.
Maybe a few players would leave the game if max4 and only 12 comes back but in overall it would help the community.

Not sure who said alrdy, think it was panicbutton.
I joined the game years before because of the 12 only, take my friends planed strategies and tactics to get better and so on.. that was a point to play for. Now days there isn't a goal to reach, its all boring... CW at current state is just farming, group queue is get stomped in small groups and farming again if u are in a big group.. where is the fun ?? Run fastes as u can to get kill before ur mates killed all whiel just rolling about the enemy is just senseless !

So Russ plz use ur brain, and think about it.
There is a reason why every other game out there handle it like that!


Edit: Maybe insert the option for the 12 men queue to see how many groups are in the queue.

Edited by Chimperator, 04 September 2015 - 03:59 AM.

[JohnnyWayne]

Chemie, on 04 September 2015 - 03:41 AM, said:

if they go to only 4-mans in the "group queue", you might was well just combine the solo and group. There is no point splitting the queues with no real difference between them. The point of group queue was for units to drop together.

Major ********. This statement is utterly wrong. There is a huge difference for solo players that have to play against groups. After they changed that the game felt like PvE for 3 weeks to me.

More over the group queue was never for UNITS to drop together. But players. Units were introduced for CW, go play that if you want bigger groups.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 04 September 2015 - 04:00 AM.

[D A T A]

1 1 1 1 will kill team coordination, it's the worst idea i have ever heard in 3 years [Redacted]

MM:

protection for less than 100 games played newbies: they can not drop against premades and they can not drop against people with 3 k\d and above.

only premades allowed: 2 4 6, easier to create combos with them

over 6 men: NO, IT CREATES STOMPS.

no other rules or we will ot find a drop.

wait time in my OP Group is now 15-20 to 50 minutes, your new PSR dismanteled my Group: we go solo because we can not find matches. We feel punished becasue we are too good.

[Chimperator]

JohnnyWayne, on 04 September 2015 - 03:58 AM, said:

Units were introduced for CW, go play that if you want bigger groups.

CW isnt a solution at the current state !

[Eboryn]

The quality of the average match in solo queue is still very very poor. You still see one team with 2-3 guys doing all the work carrying 9 scrubs who barely know how to walk, while another team has 10-12 "average" players and proceeds to massiv steamroll the former.
Is that what you understand as a "quality balanced match"? I hope not really

[JohnnyWayne]

Chimperator, on 04 September 2015 - 04:03 AM, said:

CW isnt a solution at the current state !

I totally agree. That doesnt change the facts AND the current form of group queue should have never be allowed. We wouldn't have this discussion right now.

The problem is, how to fix CW that it becomes the unit driven environment they aimed for? Currently CW is easy mode for me as there is no skill based matchmaking. I drop there when I want some fun gameplay where I dont have to tryhard.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 04 September 2015 - 04:07 AM.

[Gnume]

As far as Group Size ... I would prefer you first try limiting it to just Even size groups up to 12 before hard limiting it to 4. It's much easier to wait for 1 person to make an even group than for 2 or more to make a 2-4 size.

Edited by CaptRosha, 04 September 2015 - 04:09 AM.

[skorpionet]

Lily from animove, on 04 September 2015 - 02:01 AM, said:

...
it would be good to know on which daytime and with which selectors you queued up.
...

I have no restrictions on servers or game modes.

I played at :
PDT, Pacific Daylight Time (US) from 9:00a to 3:00p

[L A V A]

I don't see hardly any full 12 mans anymore.

Think the reason is because if you go with a 12 man, you have to bring 3 lights and the MM will pit you against a group of 3 assaults and 5 heavies.

Trying to force folks into the 1/1/1/1 situation is what is causing them to play smaller groups where they can essentially bring what they want.

If you create a 4 man max group which requires 1/1/1/1, the group queue will collapse.

Only solution to this is to allow folks to bring what they want.

Best suggestion I have read is to only allow even numbered groups to make MMing easier.

[Reno Blade]

I'd say max group size of 6 or 8 would be the first step.
4 is too low and more than 8 are just too easy to stomp smaller groups.
9-12 mans should really be in CW as much as possible, cause that is where the big size makes the most sense and most fun.

I would prefere the release valves to consider the game modes as "soft choices" after some time.

[Chemie]

JohnnyWayne, on 04 September 2015 - 03:58 AM, said:

Major ********. This statement is utterly wrong. There is a huge difference for solo players that have to play against groups. After they changed that the game felt like PvE for 3 weeks to me.

More over the group queue was never for UNITS to drop together. But players. Units were introduced for CW, go play that if you want bigger groups.

Then just eliminate group queue and call CW group. My point is that 4-mans is not worth splitting the queues between solo and "group". PGI did this to themsleves by having way to many options
servers
games modes
solo/group
cw
2-10 mans
weight classes

It is plain crazy.

[smokefield]

As pharm said...I am not a fan of group sizes being limited to 4 either. This is a multiplayer game and I fully expect to be able to drop with my friends be that 3 or 12 man.... i prefer unbalanced games over restrictions that will prohibit me to enjoy my friends banter and fun times...

[JohnnyWayne]

Chemie, on 04 September 2015 - 04:17 AM, said:

Then just eliminate group queue and call CW group. My point is that 4-mans is not worth splitting the queues between solo and "group". PGI did this to themsleves by having way to many options
servers
games modes
solo/group
cw
2-10 mans
weight classes

It is plain crazy.

And my point is that it is worth because of match quality. I experienced that first hand. I usually drop in 2 mans and see myself limited in options to compete against lager groups... that are playing together a lot. There is a difference that you cant outskill if you are not queued with at last 3 other good players that you play together with on a regular basis.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 04 September 2015 - 04:24 AM.

[Lily from animove]

PhoenixFire55, on 04 September 2015 - 02:16 AM, said:

MM treats Spider-5V the same way it does Firestarter-FS9-A. Your precious 1/1/1/1 solves nothing. If Elo or PSR values actually worked properly and did so for each mech variant separately, then you would never have any weight/class mismatch issues. That one simple change have been suggested a million times since day one of matchmaker.



So sorry, but from the ideas that are in consideration none will work for sure. The only thing that these ideas will achieve is solo queue becoming the only game mode. But of course, how can you even dare to not play solo in a team-based game. Pfft.

then name proper ideas, i have not seen them yet, I want to see how you as a human woudl try to match those people a lot of groups queue up in a matter and combination of "non matchable" setups. so unless the game has like 500k palyers online at a time as LOL does, most ideas are not feasable, so you have to go with ideas that at leats, create matches and try to not make them too unfair. But delivering both reliable will not work in the current state of MWO. I simply can't bring th few freidns I have to the grp queue because the result is unfun for them. And so they solo all day. This is not MM fautl, its the issue of how groupplay soloplay works and coming as a "group" of two is hardly a comparsion to groups of 6+ and which kind of coordination they bring to the table. Other games actually simply AFTER entering their modes prevent using class X anymore, due to having enough from them. But this won't work in MWO that way because people may not have a proper mech for the needed class or simply would be mad not being allowed to bring the mech they want.

smokefield, on 04 September 2015 - 04:19 AM, said:

As pharm said...I am not a fan of group sizes being limited to 4 either. This is a multiplayer game and I fully expect to be able to drop with my friends be that 3 or 12 man.... i prefer unbalanced games over restrictions that will prohibit me to enjoy my friends banter and fun times...

thats the reason why the grp queue is so emtpy, the majority does not like getting unfair matchups constantly, and so most players of grps of 2 or 3 man simply entirely dropped the grp mode and solodrop all day. Especially when ontop they get fllamed for not bringing the "meta" The big groups killed the fun of small groups, and ssmall groups left group queue so that the big groups now flame about being too empty and alone havign to wait ages. Not PGI's fault, its tryhardvalley who scared the casuals away from the mode.

I wonder a bit if we would remove solo and grp queue for soem time with pSR in effect and allow only one tier hgher and lower in the matchups, how this affects the matches. Mabe that would work somehow, But I still doubt it.

Edited by Lily from animove, 04 September 2015 - 04:46 AM.

[Heuvadoches]

Forcing all 3 modes to be in play: Absolutely not ... non starter. Will boycott game again if this is implemented. I do not like nor do I play "Capture the Resources".

[Cashel]

Firstly - thank you to Russ and the developers assuming that you're taking the time to read the feedback given here. Please consider acknowledging again further down in this thread that people who can affect changes are reading this to give us, the generally silent generally enjoying the game for what it is players, some hope.

The group queue has been broken since the PSR changes. I played that mode exclusively until the changes and when I suddenly got 20+ min search times for 80% of my games - all of the players I play with either moved to CW with me if they were in the same faction we were or went to pugging. So current group queue stats are likely missing all the players who are regularly there.

There are two elegant and simple solutions that should both be considered to enhance both the current problem with the group queue and also the new player experience.

This first part has been articulated very nicely by Tarogato and discussion can be read here..

https://www.reddit.c...ion_suggestion/

It's simple and I don't know why more people haven't come up with it or put it forward.

• 
  Only allow groups of 4, 8, and 12. Multiples of a lance. Limit them by 3/3/3/3.
  
• 
  (if necessary) Introduce "Duo queuing". When two players group up as a pair, they are sent into either solo or group queue depending on their PSR. High PSR? Group queue - they get paired with another duo queue pair and make up a full lance. But if they are low PSR? (i.e., somebody trying to bring their brand-new friend into the game for the first time) Solo queue instead, where they have can have a more forgiving experience instead of the shark ^meta infested waters that is the group queue.

This way there are only four (4!) different types of puzzle pieces for the matchmaker to fit together instead of what we have to deal with currently: ten (10!). It solves the problem of units and TS servers (people like u/Cashel_MWO ) who are very interested in playing in large groups like 8 and 12 while also making the matchmaker happier. If we reduce the group queue to ONLY groups of four, then we are alienating a significant number of people. Entire units left the game in the past when group queue was limited to four only because they could no longer play as a unit in MWO. Sure, CW exists now and it didn't then, but for most people it does not suffice. For them it doesn't exist as an option because they don't enjoy playing it. I don't think Phase 3 is going to bring anything groundbreaking enough to bring units back to CW that are already bored of it.



The other portion of this change needs to address the current New Player Experience (NPE) because if you're looking at making changes, this is a great chance to make the right one. Thus I suggest the Mentoring idea, as follows.



Allow a 2 man group into the solo queue when they make a 2 man group and choose an option of 'Mentor' when launching the game.

The player who has chosen 'Mentor' will have that flagged on the match summary screen so other players can see that there is a mentor in the game. The mentor & newbie would be dropped into a tier 4 solo queue game. This is important so that there are no instances of tier 1 players pairing up to farm new players for easy wins - or if it is occurring that it's easy to see and social pressure will be applied. You could also further reduce the potential for abuse by making the KDR and win/loss ratios of the mentor & mentored not affected by a 'Mentor' game for people attempting to raise their tiers.

Prior to the group queue changes, bringing a friend along for a match had a decent chance of seeing them chainsawed by a team comprised of more experienced players and them quitting due to the learning curve difficulty. Having the ability to bring a friend along for an easier first time experience = player retention = more $ for operational costs/development + more playerbase = quicker searches = win for all.

Edited by Cashel, 04 September 2015 - 07:50 AM.

[TWIAFU]

StalaggtIKE, on 03 September 2015 - 02:17 PM, said:

Allowing people to play with their friends is the most important thing. Take that away and you may as well stop calling it a multiplayer game. We already had guys to quit because they got tired of being the odd man out.

I just love how groups are to be limited in size by and from people that do NOT play in groups.

So, now I can only play with 3 friends from my Unit at once? WTF!

Really going to force every single Unit with more then 4 people to sync drop on planets just so they can play together?

Why don't we leave group queue alone and force everyone that wants to join group queue to join a group.

MWO: A MMO where your limited in the MM part to only 4.