20 replies to this topic

[Burns Nublit]

Hello fellow mechwarriors,

I am a old hand at MWO and have seen the game change throughout the last few years. I am used to rebalancing and the sway of PGI's marketing emphisis. Just of late, specifically after the changing of the scoring system, I noticed that I am earning far less C-Bills on average. The only mech classes that seem to still be earning me money are mediums and lights. This leads me to the question, is there something I can do to change my play style in heavies and assaults or should I just come to accept this new change in earnings?

On an average game with a heavy or assault I will do around 500 dmg with 1-2 kills and 5-7 assists. This will net me 130 thousand C-Bills(after a win) without a hero bonus or premium time. At this earning rate I need about 40 matches just to afford a module, and this level of grind is offputting. It also stops me from piloting my non-leveled mechs as often as I'd like. Variety adds allot to replayability so I don't like having to stick with the same meta builds at all times (these are often not hero mechs either).

Before the "get gud" or "team workz!" comments start coming in, I can tell you that I know how to murder ball and flank. The issue I am having does not involve getting a decent score, it revolves around the low rewards I am seeing on a day in, day out basis.

So, are there tactics I should be focusing on besides putting out damage and assists? Are flankers and hit and run mediums/lights the only way to go if you want money? Should I just chalk this up to PGI instituting a " Buy premium time/packs or suffer" policy?

Any constructive input would be gladly appreciated.

[Tyler Valentine]

I haven't really noticed that I get less money for the same performance. Competition has gotten a little better since PSR so sometimes I get a little less at the end of the match, but it's because I didn't play as well. No such thing as a grind by the way. If the game is unenjoyable now a module won't change that. "Grinding" is the game.

[Burktross]

Tyler Valentine, on 04 September 2015 - 01:20 PM, said:

I haven't really noticed that I get less money for the same performance. Competition has gotten a little better since PSR so sometimes I get a little less at the end of the match, but it's because I didn't play as well. No such thing as a grind by the way. If the game is unenjoyable now a module won't change that. "Grinding" is the game.

Grinding gets cash which gets new items. New items, new experiences. New experiences, renewed game lifespan. 1 cbill a match vs 200k cbill a match is a huge difference. There needs to be a balance between retention and difficulty.

[Armored Yokai]

i am making a whole lot more than what i used to get

[Xetelian]

You can play to maximize your rewards...bring an LBX10 instead of an AC10 and get the same damage results without killing your opponent too quickly with component destructions paying out well you can focus legs and then run off to another target after get 1 or 2 components on each target

Edited by Xetelian, 04 September 2015 - 01:56 PM.

[Leone]

I get less cbills now, per match. Fortunately, there seems to be some pretty decent CW incentives rolling around, so I'm sure FRR will get a chance to shine.

~Leone.

[Goose of Prey]

It’s not a direct C-bill nerf, yet C-bills are down about 10%-30% depending on play style. C-bill nerf might be, and more than likely is, an unintended consequence of better ability grouping through tiers. However, PGI has lied so many times they don’t the courtesy “benefit of doubt” from me.

Have had some very fun games now that my tier has adjusted, but if they don’t fix rewards soon I will start looking at other games. I’ve paid enough. The only thing keeping me going is the PT I’ve got running.[

[Burns Nublit]

Xetelian, on 04 September 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

You can play to maximize your rewards...bring an LBX10 instead of an AC10 and get the same damage results without killing your opponent too quickly with component destructions paying out well you can focus legs and then run off to another target after get 1 or 2 components on each target

Other people in my unit have said this same thing. I don't like that I have to abuse a system to reap the same rewards now that I was getting before they decided to "incentivize" a certain play style, but if that is what it takes I guess I'll just have to deal with it.

As for my grind comment, I must state that the only thing that turns it into a grind is when I have to only play one type of mech or a single variant to gain the c bills I need to stay competitive in CW. I enjoy playing the game still, or I wouldn't be posting about this

[Chemie]

new forest map on skirmish adds 2 minutes to every game just from having to walk the 10 squares to regroup.

[jay35]

Goose of Prey, on 04 September 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

It’s not a direct C-bill nerf, yet C-bills are down about 10%-30% depending on play style. C-bill nerf might be, and more than likely is, an unintended consequence of better ability grouping through tiers. However, PGI has lied so many times they don’t the courtesy “benefit of doubt” from me.

Have had some very fun games now that my tier has adjusted, but if they don’t fix rewards soon I will start looking at other games. I’ve paid enough. The only thing keeping me going is the PT I’ve got running.[

They purposely reduced c-bill earnings at least once if not twice since the beginning of 2012. The first time they reduced them, iirc the reason was basically "with the pending introduction of 12v12, you'll be earning more, so we need to reduce the c-bill earnings relative to what you earn today in 8v8" --- except that they did it weeks if not months before 12v12 materialized so people were earning much less in the meantime and then when 12v12 materialized it was questionable whether we actually ever saw earnings increase back to where they were in the pre-nerf 8v8 days (and no wonder since it is incredibly rare for a player to take out more than a handful of opponents in a match regardless of how many there are in the match. It's not a linear scale but they appeared to treat it like one when it came to calculating earnings nerfs).

I think the second time they nerfed earnings was in anticipation of CW coming out but I don't know the specifics around that one since I put MWO on the shelf for a few months last year and only heard about the second earnings nerf from other players' word of mouth after I returned.

It wouldn't surprise me if an outcome of PSR was somewhat of a negative impact to earnings. Not because they did it purposely as in the past, but simply a result of the different makeup of the team member quality.

But there's also a stealth nerf though, in that the newer larger maps take longer to conduct battle on, as Chemie noted.

Previously, a match could end in as little as two minutes and often did. Now the minimum seems to be around 3 minutes, which would be a 50% increase to match time, or put another way, a ~33% reduction in earnings over time.

There are also two other things to remember:

#1 - If they ever offer reduced-size game modes such as 4v4 or 8v8, we must demand that earnings be increased accordingly so that payouts in those modes are equitable to what we get in 12v12.

#2 - Earnings reductions also reduce the inherent value in Premium Time and hero mechs. The two earnings reductions in 2012/3 inherently reduced the value received from c-bills boosts because 30% or 50% more of a smaller number is a lesser amount than that same percentage of a larger number. Yet the standard cost of PT and hero mechs did not change. So here we find that by nerfing earnings they inherently reduced the ROI of paid content.

Edited by jay35, 05 September 2015 - 10:33 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Earning are down about 20-30% for me, that is pre match, by hour we are talking over 50% just in wait/walking time that I'm not getting three games or so that I would have before.

[Blue Boutique]

130k C-Bills is low for a 500 game which makes me wonder if you're steamrolling a weakened lance with a team which robs you of solo kills, damage most dealt and brawling bonuses. Component destroyed, hit and run and flanking do add up for all mech classes so don't go killing off mechs too quickly least till you can get a favorable chance for a push.

[Yokaiko]

Blue Boutique, on 06 September 2015 - 02:42 AM, said:

130k C-Bills is low for a 500 game which makes me wonder if you're steamrolling a weakened lance with a team which robs you of solo kills, damage most dealt and brawling bonuses. Component destroyed, hit and run and flanking do add up for all mech classes so don't go killing off mechs too quickly least till you can get a favorable chance for a push.

Nevermind I had that wrong

Still feels a bit low, 170k with premium? The old system would have been around 200,000

Edited by Yokaiko, 06 September 2015 - 04:35 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

Premium time is terrible value for money. It's much better to preorder cheap mech packs as early as possible, especially the Inner Sphere ones.

If you have the determination, some of the cheapest hero mechs (especially on sale) are also a good way to farm C-bills. Oxide, Huginn, Ember, Sparky, Grid Iron, etc. The only downside is that you're doomed to play mechs with relatively limited options while pugging.

I'm so happy I'm finally done working for C-bills in this game. The grind is brutal.

[Yokaiko]

So here is what you have to do to actually get paid.

Edited by Yokaiko, 06 September 2015 - 04:36 AM.

[jay35]

Now subtract 80k c-bills if you use consumables like I do. What a racket.

[Scromboid]

jay35, on 06 September 2015 - 07:42 AM, said:

Now subtract 80k c-bills if you use consumables like I do. What a racket.

I'm way too cheap for that. No way I will ever use a consumable. Not even the free ones. I would sell them if I could.

[jay35]

I hardly ever see more than 350k (usually a lot less than that) despite multiple kills, a boatload of assists, 500+ damage, and winning & surviving the round. And that's before mentally subtracting 80k because doing that well normally involves using a strike and coolshot. And I run Premium Time all the time.

When I'm not grinding out new chassis, I play mechs I enjoy playing though, not LRM boats and other builds designed to farm c-bills. In a world of 6-million-cbill modules and XL engines that cost almost as much, we shouldn't have to play a specific build just to acquire those things. Certainly shouldn't have to just to earn decent income. Any build contributing that well to the team should be rewarded heavily, though that's not really the case right now. Earnings are ... okay right now. Not great by any means, just okay.

Here's a perfect example. I'm running a WVR-Q (Quarantine hero mech) there, grinding out its unlocks. I got two kills, plus seven assists, did 681 damage, and even got a few spotting assists, yet despite Premium Time and Hero mech bonus, I only earned 351k. Now subtract 80k for the consumables and the real number is 271k.

For a Medium mech that did that well in the match (I had the highest match score on my team, second highest kills, and second highest damage), that reward is pretty mediocre. To have to PAY to get that level of reward (premium time and hero mech) for that level of performance is pathetic. The only thing more disappointing would be not paying for PT and the hero mech bonus and ending up with 115k earnings. If that isn't an example of the disgusting cbill grind in MWO, what is. You'd have to play 40 matches _doing that well or better_ just to get a 4.5million c-bill upgrade like a large XL engine. But I also already have the mech upgraded and kitted out in order to do that well, so factor that in, too. Yeah, it's crazy.

Here's another one. Grinding out the TBT-7K. Again, 2 kills, 7 assists, over 600 damage, highest matchscore on my team and second-highest damage (missed that by 2 points), alive at the end of the match, and match was a 12-0 sweep of the enemy. Earnings? 238k. Weak. Or 159k without premium time. Even weaker. And subtract 40k or 80k for consumables. (I tend to use two during a match with a mediocre chassis like a TBT.) And you're looking at less than 100k for a very successful match performance and win in a low tier mech.

Okay, one more to show how it's even worse for heavier weight classes. One of my favorite mechs in the game, the TDR-9SE(C). I've got over a milllion XP sitting in this thing. This is a slightly above average match result in it for me. Top matchscore, top damage (800), top kills (4), plus 7 assists, we won, and I was alive at the end of the round. How much do you earn for that kind of performance? 182k without premium time. Minus 80k in my case for consumables and you're earning a measly 100k without PT, or in my case with PT 190k after consumables.

This is why I will never play this game without premium time running, because even with PT it's barely got the ROI to make it worth playing. And I feel sorry for new players that can't even afford to upgrade their mechs and therefore don't have as good a shot at doing as well as someone with a meta build and everything unlocked. War is a racket.

[Nightmare1]

Burns Nublit, on 04 September 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

Hello fellow mechwarriors,

I am a old hand at MWO and have seen the game change throughout the last few years. I am used to rebalancing and the sway of PGI's marketing emphisis. Just of late, specifically after the changing of the scoring system, I noticed that I am earning far less C-Bills on average. The only mech classes that seem to still be earning me money are mediums and lights. This leads me to the question, is there something I can do to change my play style in heavies and assaults or should I just come to accept this new change in earnings?

On an average game with a heavy or assault I will do around 500 dmg with 1-2 kills and 5-7 assists. This will net me 130 thousand C-Bills(after a win) without a hero bonus or premium time. At this earning rate I need about 40 matches just to afford a module, and this level of grind is offputting. It also stops me from piloting my non-leveled mechs as often as I'd like. Variety adds allot to replayability so I don't like having to stick with the same meta builds at all times (these are often not hero mechs either).

Before the "get gud" or "team workz!" comments start coming in, I can tell you that I know how to murder ball and flank. The issue I am having does not involve getting a decent score, it revolves around the low rewards I am seeing on a day in, day out basis.

So, are there tactics I should be focusing on besides putting out damage and assists? Are flankers and hit and run mediums/lights the only way to go if you want money? Should I just chalk this up to PGI instituting a " Buy premium time/packs or suffer" policy?

Any constructive input would be gladly appreciated.

Your best bet is to review the Rewards 2.0 Action List. If you play to the list, you can earn way more C-bills than you ever did before. I went from having 280,000 C-bills on a win as a really good match, to having 400,000 c-bills on a win as being a really good match. Average matches went up about 60,000 C-bills too.

The best thing about the new list, is that you don't have to do anything substantially different except stay closer to your team. If you stay within a certain distance of your lancemates, you get a Lance in Formation Bonus. If a Mech that weighs less than you is nearby, you get a protection bonus. If you flank and enemy, you get a flanking bonus. If you deal >30 points of damage and then rock back behind cover, you get a Hit-and-Run bonus. Tagging and Narc'ing give bonuses, as do shooting down UAVs. Targeting with R gives Spotting bonuses.

You get the idea. Basically, stick close to your allies and watch for opportunities to score extra C-bills using the new system. I've had my earnings increase dramatically since the new system went into effect. It's not even uncommon now for me to break 200,000 C-bills on a loss.

jay35, on 06 September 2015 - 07:42 AM, said:

Now subtract 80k c-bills if you use consumables like I do. What a racket.

Dude, it's free to play. What do you expect?

[Troutmonkey]

Burns Nublit, on 04 September 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

Any constructive input would be gladly appreciated.

Reached out to Russ on Twitter after the new Match score system came in.
"No Change"
https://twitter.com/...887599085285376

Before now earnings were nerfed for 12v12 because "there'd be more mechs to shoot and earn cbills off" and were nerfed again when rewards 2.0 hit. Used to earn about 180k each game just from farming assists.