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In Preparation For 9/22


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#1 Vlad Ward

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:38 PM

I think a lot of people are going to be surprised by what tier they're in.

More importantly, a lot of people are going to be surprised by what tier other people are in.

There's been a lot of commotion on the boards lately about people running into members of SJR, 228, EmP, and other high level comp teams in their matches. The initial assumption has always been one of two things:

1) Players were seeded in a tier that was too high for them and they need to lose a lot to fall down.

or

2) The MM swung the gates wide open and allowed T1 players to fight against T3s.

I would assert that neither of these is likely to be the case.

The more likely scenario is that these high level comp players are actually being seeded around Tiers 2 and 3.

Why would this be happening? Are these guys not actually the best players in the game?

Well, no. They are the best players in the game. But there's a catch. Players in high level comp teams tend not to exhibit the kind of behavior that PSR would value in its pre-seeding.

What do I mean by this?

For starters, many comp players actually play significantly less than solo players. Because there's no real need to grind c-bills or XP, many players only log in for scrims, practices, and league matches.

On top of this, participating in player run leagues results in both significantly stronger opponents than one would normally find playing the game, and significant restrictions on equipment and chassis', meaning many mid-level teams will actually have a higher loss/death rate than they should if placed in the solo queue.

To make matters worse, the primary factor involved in determining PSR gains/losses is match score, which is almost entirely based off of damage dealt.

When all 12 people on a team are contributing equally, damage/score per player is actually fairly low. This is a stark contrast to solo queue where a single pilot may net 1200-1400 damage while other members of their team sit in the double digits.

So, if members of high level comp teams aren't going to be the primary demographic in Tier 1, who is?

Well, this is easy. In order to best take advantage of the PSR's scoring system, a Tier 1 pilot will exhibit the following traits:

1) Drops Solo in the vast majority of games

2) Plays a lot. Like, all the time. As in, when do you sleep?

3) Does lots and lots of damage. Like, completely unnecessary damage, to the point where any reasonable pilot would have killed 15 Mechs with those numbers.

Does this sound familiar to anyone out there?

Yes. I'll say it.

Tier 1 is going to be populated entirely by pug LRM boats.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 03 September 2015 - 07:39 PM.


#2 Milocinia

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:43 PM

I know what I am and I don't care simply because the current solo MM gives me great games.

Whatever tier I turn out to be I'll show it with pride because I will always play this game the way I want to play it with loadouts that I want to roll with.

I've always hated meta and the "best way" to roll with something. I would always choose something that I enjoy, not anyone else. If that makes me tier 5 then I'm not ashamed to show it.

Having said that, there's a fair few people on here who can vouch for the fact that I put in a damn good show for a non-meta.

#3 Deathlike

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:44 PM

I'm pretty sure I'm Tier Scrub.

Forum Scrub.

#4 Xetelian

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:46 PM

I'm sure I'm 4 or at best 3. I don't think I'm a 5 and I don't think I'm a 2. I solo queue.


Since you can grind your tier in clan war with a unit rolling people...and you can do that in group queue...well I think most people will be surprised by being tier 1 than being tier 5.

#5 Vlad Ward

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:46 PM

Clearly I waited too long to deliver the punch line....

#6 Mcgral18

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:47 PM

View PostVlad Ward, on 03 September 2015 - 07:38 PM, said:

Tier 1 is going to be populated entirely by pug LRM boats.


Depends what PGI considers a "Good" match.
Most LRM boats I see don't do very well.


I've seen some big discrepancies in the MM today. I was put with a handful of good player on my side, while on the other side I saw no less than 2 completely stock mechs (Hunch 4SP and Mad Dog Prime). As you could guess, it was a complete 12-0 stomp within I believe 5 minutes. No speed record...but why not put some of the good players on either team?

It's weird.

#7 Xetelian

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:48 PM

View PostVlad Ward, on 03 September 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

Clearly I waited too long to deliver the punch line....



Clearly.

I went back and reread it and now I feel like and ass.

Thanks for making me an ass.

You did this!

#8 lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:48 PM

View PostVlad Ward, on 03 September 2015 - 07:38 PM, said:

I think a lot of people are going to be surprised by what tier they're in.

More importantly, a lot of people are going to be surprised by what tier other people are in.

There's been a lot of commotion on the boards lately about people running into members of SJR, 228, EmP, and other high level comp teams in their matches. The initial assumption has always been one of two things:

1) Players were seeded in a tier that was too high for them and they need to lose a lot to fall down.

or

2) The MM swung the gates wide open and allowed T1 players to fight against T3s.

I would assert that neither of these is likely to be the case.

The more likely scenario is that these high level comp players are actually being seeded around Tiers 2 and 3.

Why would this be happening? Are these guys not actually the best players in the game?

Well, no. They are the best players in the game. But there's a catch. Players in high level comp teams tend not to exhibit the kind of behavior that PSR would value in its pre-seeding.

What do I mean by this?

For starters, many comp players actually play significantly less than solo players. Because there's no real need to grind c-bills or XP, many players only log in for scrims, practices, and league matches.

On top of this, participating in player run leagues results in both significantly stronger opponents than one would normally find playing the game, and significant restrictions on equipment and chassis', meaning many mid-level teams will actually have a higher loss/death rate than they should if placed in the solo queue.

To make matters worse, the primary factor involved in determining PSR gains/losses is match score, which is almost entirely based off of damage dealt.

When all 12 people on a team are contributing equally, damage/score per player is actually fairly low. This is a stark contrast to solo queue where a single pilot may net 1200-1400 damage while other members of their team sit in the double digits.

So, if members of high level comp teams aren't going to be the primary demographic in Tier 1, who is?

Well, this is easy. In order to best take advantage of the PSR's scoring system, a Tier 1 pilot will exhibit the following traits:

1) Drops Solo in the vast majority of games

2) Plays a lot. Like, all the time. As in, when do you sleep?

3) Does lots and lots of damage. Like, completely unnecessary damage, to the point where any reasonable pilot would have killed 15 Mechs with those numbers.

Does this sound familiar to anyone out there?

Yes. I'll say it.

Tier 1 is going to be populated entirely by pug LRM boats.


I don't see the problem. Perhaps this is the way PGI wants to go. I guess if players want to be in the higher tiers, then they'll need to drop their meta laser/gauss/dakka and L2LURM?

Hmm, maybe that's why Paul is reducing ECM...

Better learn to fight in the shade, people. lulz

#9 Yokaiko

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:49 PM

orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

TLDR

I was more than 3 lines.

#10 Zordicron

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:49 PM

So.... has the poll completed then? Is there some news about tier display? I haven't heard.

That said, I don't care about my tier, i am sure it is 5. Or worse.

Vegeta, what does the scouter say about Eld's tier? ..............(you guys know the answer here so I won't bother with a meme link)

#11 Kodyn

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:50 PM

View PostVlad Ward, on 03 September 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

Clearly I waited too long to deliver the punch line....



Yeah, you accidentally started a real discussion lol.

One serious point that you accidentally made- Many people see members of 228, etc, and just assume it's their comp guys...this isn't true at all. 228 and most of the larger, more competitive units have both comp-level teams and newbs, and everything in between. Learning to differentiate which you're facing can help a lot with these assumptions.

#12 Agent 0 Fortune

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:51 PM

I am far more curious to see how narrow (or wide) the MatchMaker grouping is, especially considering that there is already a significant diversity within an individual PSR tier.

Of course you probably wont see, because the PSR wont be public.

#13 FupDup

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:51 PM

Relevant Anecdote: Earlier I saw Twinky Overlord get killed with about 227 damage and 0 kills, he was in a Timber Wolf armed with 2 LPL + Gauss.

...My 4 ERML Mist Lynx landed the killshot. :D

Edited by FupDup, 03 September 2015 - 07:52 PM.


#14 Kodyn

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:52 PM

View PostAgent 0 Fortune, on 03 September 2015 - 07:51 PM, said:

I am far more curious to see how narrow (or wide) the MatchMaker grouping is, especially considering that there is already a significant diversity within an individual PSR tier.

Of course you probably wont see, because the PSR wont be public.



You should still see enough of a cross-section of each team to make educated guesses about the tiers of hidden players, if it does end up opt-in, which is likely.

#15 bad arcade kitty

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:53 PM

sjr, cjx and emp tags signify a good player but 228 are a bunch of scrubs, i saw quite a few of them, i dunno why you even list them there

#16 Vlad Ward

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:56 PM

View PostAgent 0 Fortune, on 03 September 2015 - 07:51 PM, said:

I am far more curious to see how narrow (or wide) the MatchMaker grouping is, especially considering that there is already a significant diversity within an individual PSR tier.

Of course you probably wont see, because the PSR wont be public.


Russ mentioned earlier that the MM will only go for exact tier matches in solo queue unless someone's been waiting for more than a minute.

So, for NA players, it's very likely the vast majority of their matches have been with 23 other people in their tier.

View PostKodyn, on 03 September 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:



Yeah, you accidentally started a real discussion lol.

One serious point that you accidentally made- Many people see members of 228, etc, and just assume it's their comp guys...this isn't true at all. 228 and most of the larger, more competitive units have both comp-level teams and newbs, and everything in between. Learning to differentiate which you're facing can help a lot with these assumptions.


This is very true.

#17 Kodyn

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:56 PM

View Postbad arcade kitty, on 03 September 2015 - 07:53 PM, said:

sjr, cjx and emp tags signify a good player but 228 are a bunch of scrubs, i saw quite a few of them, i dunno why you even list them there


While they do have a wide variety of players, their comp guys are no joke. I'm talking, hit exactly where they aim, carry every game, no idea how they end up in my matches good. Just seeing those guys ever any place besides my friend's list tells me that I'm probably tier 3-4, and they're 1-2, and that some valves have probably been opened when I see them in game.

#18 Milocinia

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 08:03 PM

I see too much of Mcgral and FupDup in the solo queue.

I'm not as high a tier I originally thought I was.

Hmmm where is Bishop lately?

#19 SolCrusher

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 08:05 PM

View PostVlad Ward, on 03 September 2015 - 07:38 PM, said:

Tier 1 is going to be populated entirely by pug LRM boats.


So I always have to wait more than 1 minute, I'm always reading something while waiting.......

#20 FupDup

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 08:21 PM

View PostKyocera, on 03 September 2015 - 08:03 PM, said:

I see too much of Mcgral and FupDup in the solo queue.

I'm not as high a tier I originally thought I was.

Hmmm where is Bishop lately?

If you're seeing me, clearly we're together in the Steering Wheel Underhive. ^_^

Except for some reason people like Twinky keep getting in there, I have absolutely no idea how that's happening...





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