42 replies to this topic

[Spare Parts Bin]

I just thought no matter what it was a courtesy to all to say GG. I may disagree with my company mates about the results but not taunting others on the other team. I have called some bad behavior but in character not by player user names. To refer to IS teams as honourless filthy surats or freebirths.

I think the state of animosity is out of control.

[Cupid and Psyche _]

gloowa, on 08 September 2015 - 05:12 AM, said:

Ummm... wat? By doing what exactly? Patching in subliminal messaging? Playing The Beatles backwards? Sending strongmen to beat up pleayers who say bad things over internet? Assigning political comissars to unit leaders? (actually, i know a certain unit which players could use several strong slaps to the face... there may be a method in this...)

A good place to start would be by having 'All' chat on by default... This is the only game I have ever played which leaves it off.

[Void Angel]

Well, I leave it off because the other team is often simply a distraction, but I see your point. If you really want to improve the social aspect of the game, I'd recommend making the faction chat and global chat areas of the UI more prominent, and enhancing their functionality - possibly add them to non-Mechlab sections of the UI as a window under the screen, for example. As-is, the chat function doesn't allow me a lot of tools to socialize; I can send messages to one person at a time, or I can talk to my entire faction or unit. It's limited. I'd like to be able to /reply to whispers in the same window I'm using to chat up my unit, or invite multiple people to a private channel to talk. It shouldn't take up much bandwidth (and there are measures that can be taken to curb excessive use and spam,) so it would be great to have the chat system expande- hey, isn't there a feature suggestion forum?

I'll be right back.

[Vlad Ward]

gloowa, on 08 September 2015 - 05:12 AM, said:

That's because you are only supposed to gg after, you know, a good game. Not a 48-7 roflstomp. By saying gg after stomps, you make it look like it's mocking the losing team, even if it was sincere.

Nah.

Though this is a good exercise for the topic of this thread. If we all just, you know, assumed people are being sincere by default instead of assuming people are rubbing salt in our wounds, we'd all get along a lot better.

I mean, I'm pretty awesome, so even when I lose I assume people are complimenting my pro Tier 1 skills when they congratulate me on a good game. Self esteem is pretty great (obvious hyperbole, but cuts to the core issue).

Plus you'd have the added bonus of forcing people to go out of their way to rub salt in significantly less subtle manners if they really want to be jerks. Then people can make threads about aforementioned obvious salting without them turning into 15 page threadnaughts about how 30-60 year old white males have thin skin and Little Billy was bullied by the other 6 year olds at Tee Ball who thought saying "bad game" was funny.

[Acierocolotl]

Armando, on 07 September 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

I just didn't want to out and out call people morons, and since solo = team is oxymoronic I thought saying they are oxymoron's would be nicer.

Back on topic: One way is to follow Saxie's lead and give public props to folks who demonstrate such behavior.

Haha, right you are then! I mean, okay, I lost an opportunity to be a know-it-all blowhard, but I'm sure I'll get more of those in the future.

I've had the positivity thing work out for me quite well, as it were, and became fast friends with a couple folk I was quite polite to in the middle of a match. Good for me, I'm sure, but the quick-to-blame-the-team sore losers always stuck in my craw so I'm game on reducing that sort of behaviour by any means.

[Tuis Ryche]

I would think that for the social aspect, there would be a persistent chat window outside of a drop that players could apply filters to and would be open to all, clan/IS, individual faction, unit, and group. EVE and EverQuest did this wonderfully (after much experimentation and development, though).

As for "GG", I would only say it after a game that was actually good and would admonish teammates who said it after a stomp. Now, if the recipients of said stomp said "GG", then hey, feel free to respond.

[Telmasa]

Tuis Ryche, on 08 September 2015 - 07:54 PM, said:

As for "GG", I would only say it after a game that was actually good and would admonish teammates who said it after a stomp. Now, if the recipients of said stomp said "GG", then hey, feel free to respond.

By "a game that was actually good", you mean a game where you get away with teamkilling, or a game where you don't get your pretty gauss-spitter builds stomped on by players with half a clue?

By all means, I agree with the sentiment that "GG" applies to a game that actually was fun & good competition as opposed to a B.S. contest and e-peen waving show, and that folks who say it after a bad game whether on the winning or losing side are in the wrong - but I confess I'm a bit surprised to see it voiced by you.

[Lyoto Machida]

Telmasa, on 08 September 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

By "a game that was actually good", you mean a game where you get away with teamkilling, or a game where you don't get your pretty gauss-spitter builds stomped on by players with half a clue?

By all means, I agree with the sentiment that "GG" applies to a game that actually was fun & good competition as opposed to a B.S. contest and e-peen waving show, and that folks who say it after a bad game whether on the winning or losing side are in the wrong - but I confess I'm a bit surprised to see it voiced by you.

[Karl Marlow]

Vlad Ward, on 07 September 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

The entire Marik faction pretty much quit CW (if not MWO as a whole) after Kurita called them on their BS and kicked their teeth in during CW Beta 1.

Well I guess they are gone so I guess you feel you can rewrite history.

Marik didn't leave during beta 1. Half left after tukkayid. Due to burn out and the other half left due to the rule changes surrounding ghost drops. What used to take around an hour to get a factions attention and start defending suddenly took 3 plus hours. Ghost dropping for 3 hours is boring.

[gloowa]

Vlad Ward, on 08 September 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

Nah.

Though this is a good exercise for the topic of this thread. If we all just, you know, assumed people are being sincere by default instead of assuming people are rubbing salt in our wounds, we'd all get along a lot better.

I mean, I'm pretty awesome, so even when I lose I assume people are complimenting my pro Tier 1 skills when they congratulate me on a good game. Self esteem is pretty great (obvious hyperbole, but cuts to the core issue).

Plus you'd have the added bonus of forcing people to go out of their way to rub salt in significantly less subtle manners if they really want to be jerks. Then people can make threads about aforementioned obvious salting without them turning into 15 page threadnaughts about how 30-60 year old white males have thin skin and Little Billy was bullied by the other 6 year olds at Tee Ball who thought saying "bad game" was funny.

See, that the thing, you and i may work this way, but i can 100% gurantee you that many players do not. After a stomp, (many)people on the stomped side are (believe it or not) annoyed, and are looking for anything to blame for the loss (holy fps trinity: lag, crappy team, stupid map). I know, i was there, around 10 years ago, and from time to time still am after a bad day.

So you can either heed my advice, and be 100% sure you didn't annoy anyone even more, or you can stand by your opinion and then be confuzzled as to why people are reacting badly to your gg. In other words, nothing wrong with saying it, everything wrong with reception of it. If you know some people will respond badly to gg after a stomp (even if that is a stupid reaction) is it not better to withhold ggs and save them for an actually good, balanced and close match?

Also, "If we all just, you know, assumed people are being sincere by default". Dude. I would love to live in a world where this is a reasonable stance to take.

[Tuis Ryche]

Are you now? I'd be surprised if your kill count actually exceeded your post count, forum-warrior. And my gauss-spitters, as you call them, have done plenty of damage and won plenty of matches in their time.

But please, feel free to grace the chat channels with your incessant bitching. I'm sure everyone else will appreciate your glowing insights into how much this or that mech sucks or your team sucks or how you died to that gauss Jager or some other dumb **** that's passing through your mind.

[B0oN]

HawkEye ?
Sportsmanshipping it

LIEK A TRU BAWSE .
<3

Heartwarming and extremely refreshing .

Thanks for the game !

[Vellron2005]

I see the "gg" discussion has metastesized here also..

I have only this to say:

"gg" is, and should be used to congratulate the opposing team on a good fight, or to congratulate your own team on a great stomp of the enemy. Anybody who sees it as ANYTHING ELSE, simply has issues, and should work on oneself..

If you can't control your own emmotions and find my congratulations insulting, that is YOUR PROBLEM.

I suggest a good pshychiatris, meditation, yoga, self-help books, or an anger menagement class. Or simply ask your parents to teach you some bloody manners.

Such people probably hate puppies too..

Edited by Vellron2005, 09 September 2015 - 12:43 AM.

[CptGier]

Steelmesh, on 07 September 2015 - 12:09 AM, said:

Yes, it would be better in general if people were more social and got immersed into their characters...

When I say immersed, I mean not talking about real-life stuff over VOIP while in a drop, maintaining comm discipline, and adressing their teammates properly (by rank or designation), and naturally, calling targets, chating in-character and stuff like that..

But that's hard to achieve when most players won't even (or can't) understand basic orders and concepts like "bring beta gate down to a sliver and open alpha, then push through alpha and attrition the enemy"... and what they do is ignore beta gate completely, open alpha, then 6 mechs just stand there and suffer arty strikes, wide-eyed and bewildered, while the other 6, instead of pushing, try to win a snipe-off with range-limited lasers..

The result is a 48:3 Jade Falcon stomping Davion..

Its hard to get immersed in a game that really doesnt have to much immersion about it. If it actually played more hard core, lumbering, battlemechs, slow firing, powerful guns, intense heat management skills, lance coordination and just had a more immersive atmosphere, I think people would.

But MWO is currently just a run and gun robot suit shooter.

Edited by CptGier, 09 September 2015 - 01:20 AM.

[PFC Carsten]

Vlad Ward, on 05 September 2015 - 04:41 PM, said:

Commonly referred to as good sports.

You have a very interesting definition of sports, when you write this in response to a post describing seal clubbing.

Sports, as I see it, is when two roughly equal parties duke it out and the loser congratulates the winner. It is not, however, when your junior high softball team gets beaten by an MLB team, despite all having the same amount of player, both using bats and wearing helmets. That's not sports.


If started on equal grounds, I have absolutely NO problem with walking away the loser, whatsoever.

Edited by PFC Carsten, 09 September 2015 - 03:40 AM.

[gloowa]

Vellron2005, on 09 September 2015 - 12:40 AM, said:

I see the "gg" discussion has metastesized here also..

I have only this to say:

"gg" is, and should be used to congratulate the opposing team on a good fight, or to congratulate your own team on a great stomp of the enemy. Anybody who sees it as ANYTHING ELSE, simply has issues, and should work on oneself..

If you can't control your own emmotions and find my congratulations insulting, that is YOUR PROBLEM.

I suggest a good pshychiatris, meditation, yoga, self-help books, or an anger menagement class. Or simply ask your parents to teach you some bloody manners.

Such people probably hate puppies too..

Again, complete agreement with most of what you said. But all i'm saying is this: if you know (and your posts indicates that you do) that even sincere gg will be taken badly by some on the opposite side, why do it?

Also, "congratulate your own team on a great stomp of the enemy". That is not gg. At best that team-chat gg.

[Armando]

PLEASE END THE "GG" DEBATE.

This was a tread about a player exhibiting great sportsmanship, lets just please have one tread that is about what is RIGHT with the game....we already have enough about what we think is wrong.

So, with that in mind....

...who else has an example of someone (other than ourselves) who exhibiting great sportsmanship? I will go first...

I enjoy playing both with and against [Kcom] in CW. They are a pleasure to work with, and when you play against them , well , They are group of hammers who look on the battlefield and see nothing but nails...one nail at time presenting isn't going to cut it against these guys, no not these guys... pop up one at a time, or walk in single file and you just become another nail that got hammered.

They are a great example of the loading screen tool tip: "Teamwork = Victory"

In my experience they are far more likely to call themselves / each other out for poor play, then mock the enemy team or the PUGs who played ... 'poorly' on their team. They are not boastful in victories nor shameful it defeat but IME always respectful (or silent).
_________________________________________________________________
****Your experience may very from mine, and if it does please keep it to yourself, then think about someone who YOU have seen exhibit great sportsmanship, and let everyone know about it*****

[Vlad Ward]

ThomasMarik, on 09 September 2015 - 12:06 AM, said:

Well I guess they are gone so I guess you feel you can rewrite history.

Marik didn't leave during beta 1. Half left after tukkayid. Due to burn out and the other half left due to the rule changes surrounding ghost drops. What used to take around an hour to get a factions attention and start defending suddenly took 3 plus hours. Ghost dropping for 3 hours is boring.

Right. I didn't say they left during Beta 1. I said they left after getting their teeth kicked in during Beta 1. The teeth kicking part occurred during Beta 1. The leaving took place during/later. I left it mildly ambiguous because different people left at different times. But you're crazy if you think getting rolled non-stop for weeks (and in some cases, like Roadie's, specifically targeted for special rolling due to forum bravado) didn't leave people throwing their hands up and walking away.

gloowa, on 09 September 2015 - 03:58 AM, said:

Again, complete agreement with most of what you said. But all i'm saying is this: if you know (and your posts indicates that you do) that even sincere gg will be taken badly by some on the opposite side, why do it?

Because I'm not beholden to grown men with self esteem issues, and I'm not all that interested in seeing a positive practice (thanking your opponent for playing with you, which is what the online "gg" is intended to be in many cases) torn down because a few people can't handle losing in a video game.

If we're talking about encouraging positive behavior, "gg" is one of the simplest, most prolific types of positive social interaction you can have in a PvP video game. Some people may take it poorly, but there's really nothing you can do to desalinate a sore loser on the internet. It simply can't be done.

All the rest of us can hope to do is to stay positive, thank each other for playing, and roll with the punches when they come.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 09 September 2015 - 07:21 PM.

[oldradagast]

Vlad Ward, on 09 September 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

Right. I didn't say they left during Beta 1. I said they left after getting their teeth kicked in during Beta 1. The teeth kicking part occurred during Beta 1. The leaving took place during/later. I left it mildly ambiguous because different people left at different times. But you're crazy if you don't think getting rolled non-stop for weeks (and in some cases, like Roadie's, specifically targeted for special rolling due to forum bravado) didn't leave people throwing their hands up and walking away.

Lol - so that's what happened to him! His bravado was absurd, and that "my way or the highway, and I'll pick a fight about it on every post on the forum!" attitude certainly didn't help. It was just as childish as "ggclose" in its own way.

As for gg, it should probably only be used in a GOOD game, IMHO, since anything else risks backlash and people seeing malice where none may have existed. Sadly, CW is mostly anything but that these days. Just rolls and rolls... which ticks people off, and then they see malice and sarcasm everywhere. Ugh... there's no community in CW, really.

Edited by oldradagast, 09 September 2015 - 05:37 PM.

[gloowa]

Vlad Ward, on 09 September 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

Because I'm not beholden to grown men with self esteem issues, and I'm not all that interested in seeing a positive practice (thanking your opponent for playing with you, which is what the online "gg" is intended to be in many cases) torn down because a few people can't handle losing in a video game.

i dunno about you, but when i played online fps games about 15 years ago, there was either gg or bg. and usually, if the scores were stomp-like, most people (on the winning team as well) would bg and try to shuffle teams next match. unfortunately, as gaming became more and more mainstream, the new arrivals would not care to get to know the etiquette, and the bg would become synonymous with "waaah! waaah! my team lost! waaah! everyone is hacking! waaah!" as people would bg even after very close and challenging games, just because they team lost. So the bg slowly died over the years. during that time, thanks to same new arrivals gg also slowly stopped having it's original meaning (that was a good game, let's do that again) and became something you type into a chat after any game, regardless of how horribly one sided it was (monkey see, monkey do).

The only exclusion for gg/bg were the competetive clan matches, where the gg was basically mandatory compliment to the opponent, and sign of good sportsmanship.

Now, the point i'm trying to make here is that the word (acronym?) you are using might not necessarlily mean what you think it means. As you can see by what many people in this thread are saying, there are many people who believe, same as me, that gg is for an actually good game, otherwise it looses all its meaning, and i think that's where the salt might come from, rather than them being upset becaust they lost.

[edit] i just realized that many games create thir own code of behaviour, so my experiences might be different then yours, making the first sentence of paragraph just above invalid.

Vlad Ward, on 09 September 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

If we're talking about encouraging positive behavior, "gg" is one of the simplest, most prolific types of positive social interaction you can have in a PvP video game. Some people may take it poorly, but there's really nothing you can do to desalinate a sore loser on the internet. It simply can't be done.

All the rest of us can hope to do is to stay positive, thank each other for playing, and roll with the punches when they come.

Agreed. Also 100% agreed with all you said about not being responsible for other people temper issues in the first quote.


Anyway, i will refrain from posting anymore about this, i don't want to convince you to change your behaviour, (which is perfectly ok) just trying to give you another perspective. Cheers mate!

Edited by gloowa, 10 September 2015 - 06:27 AM.