23 replies to this topic

[Ehsahn]

So, I've seen a lot of "What should my first mech be" etc etc posts, but it seems like not a lot of research has been done by the poster(s) as far as what's relevant. I guess I'll start by saying I've done my research. I've recently started playing and have been poring over every "competetive", well-written site/guide since.

As far as tier-listing/winning statistics goes it seems like Clan mechs are always highest (with Madcat-Timber, and Direwolf consistantly being highest in both).

So my question is this.

I see a lot of people recommending people start off buying mechs that later become relatively obsolete in terms of the metagame and was wondering why I shouldn't just save up every C-bill I can until I can afford one of these bad boys and save myself some time leveling up less-fortunate mechs ?

Maybe I'm missing something, and if I am, please let me know.

[SilentScreamer]

Ehsahn, on 02 September 2015 - 04:48 AM, said:

As far as tier-listing/winning statistics goes it seems like Clan mechs are always highest (with Madcat-Timber, and Direwolf consistantly being highest in both).

So my question is this.

I see a lot of people recommending people start off buying mechs that later become relatively obsolete in terms of the metagame and was wondering why I shouldn't just save up every C-bill I can until I can afford one of these bad boys and save myself some time leveling up less-fortunate mechs ?

Maybe I'm missing something, and if I am, please let me know.

1) Yes, Timber and Direwolf are near the top of the food chain, but not all Clan mechs are.The Sommoner is generally regarded as underperforming and MistLynx has become virtually extinct now that the ArticCheetah is out. Also, Warhawk and Ebonjagur can give the Dire and Timber a close match and you should try them too.

2) The introduction of the quirk system last year turned the competative players away from their old mechs to new ones. PGI has said a new rebalance is the way...expect it to be just as big a gamechanger. But it will not changes points 3 and 4 below.

3) Omnimechs (Timberwolf and Direwolf) are slighly "safer" from rebalancing/quirk changes because you can swap out modules to optimize your loadout. That said, the Timber is one of the few mechs to have recieved quirks to hinder rather than help performance.

4) Clan mechs are deadlier because they use the Clan XL engine. In contrast, other mechs use a) Standard engine which leaves less room for weapons and armor; b) the XL engine which makes the mech vunerable (death on side torso destruction).

5) Few young players realize that to the "cheaper" Inner Sphere mechs cost about as much in c-bills as a Clan mech after you upgrade the heatsinks, endosteel and throw in an XL engine.

6) Remember to have fun with your mechs. If winning is all that is fun then you have a difficult road ahead. If you can play a mech you enjoy, win or loose, even if PGI hits it with a nerf hammer, you will be okay.

Edited by SilentScreamer, 02 September 2015 - 05:19 AM.

[Anunknownlurker]

There is no solid reason at all why you shouldn't save up all your C-bills and buy whichever mech you want!

I think some people hold back on recommending the Timberwolf, Direwolf and Stormcrow (pretty much metamechs at the moment) for a number of reasons not least of which is that you carry around a damn great "shoot me" sign every time you pilot one of them. Yes, they are tough, yes they hit hard but ANY mech melts under concentrated fire and until you know the maps, understand your opponents and learn how to manage heat you will under-perform in any of those chassis which hurts your team and ruins your own enjoyment of the game.

Despite what some people may say, in my opinion (2500 games in) there is no "I-win" mech and, ultimately, it comes down to the pilot; for example, I don't think anyone would call the Cicada "meta" but it is consistently my best performing mech, stick me in a TBR and I suck badly, I like fast and nimble.

Regarding the "metagame" why focus on that? Unless you are in one of the highest competitive teams it has very little bearing on day-to-day play. Personally I focus on the mechs I have the most fun playing, good or bad, and they tend to be the ones I like the look of!

Take your time, don't rush, learn the game and then decide what you want to spend your hard-earned C-bills on.

Good hunting MechWarrior!

P.S. be aware that at some time in the near future the is meant to be a complete re-balance of all the mechs, so what is "meta" now may not be soon!

Edited by Jimmy DiGriz, 02 September 2015 - 05:14 AM.

[dragnier1]

It's a known fact that PGI balances mechs, even between Clan and IS.

That means that Clan is not the end game nor meta, rather specific mechs being meta. Just like flavour of the month, mech of the month can change the moment it gets nerfed or another gets buffed.

[Ehsahn]

Jimmy DiGriz, on 02 September 2015 - 05:13 AM, said:

Regarding the "metagame" why focus on that? Unless you are in one of the highest competitive teams it has very little bearing on day-to-day play. Personally I focus on the mechs I have the most fun playing, good or bad, and they tend to be the ones I like the look of!

I just suppose that I just want to avoid being "that poor *******" whose first mech purchases were Commando/Awesome In my mind, going in the opposite direction is logical. That being said even only having played 3 days I notice myself consistantly calling out to my lance "Forget that Centurion, let's focus down that Dire"

[Rhavin]

I always suggest the hunchback. It is a solid mech chassis that while not being the best is not the worst and is very unlikely to receive any nerfs. If you have an idea for a build chances are very good you can build something simular on one of its variants to test drive it without breaking the bank. It is the most well rounded chassis in the game, it's an opinion but an opinion shared by many. The 4p is just an awesome mech, the Grid Iron hero is simply the best guassbringer in the game. They are built so well that they compete in pug play straight out the factory.

I can't do the same for a clan mech, there is not one in particular that can accommodate as many builds due to lack of positive quirks, excess of negative quirks, fixed equipment slots/engines or lack of omnipods with relevant hardpoints. Clan weapons, xl engines and heatsinks are the strong points of the clan mechs.

That said buying the mech you want to pilot is the smartest thing a new player can do. No amount of firepower is going to make up for knowledge and experience in this game. Knowing when to shoot (range, component focusing, threat assesment, tactics), and how to move is a bigger part of this shooter/Sim than any other game I have played. Each mech build has playstyle it accommodates and others it fails at. If you play to those strengths you will find success.

[Ehsahn]

Thanks for your replies. Honestly my twitch-targetting skills aren't the greatest so I'll probably stay away from Gauss/ppc. But, what I lack in great aim I usually make up for in out-thinking/piloting (in other games). Of course, my map awareness and knowlege of pushes aren't up to snuff (yet!), but when they are I'm thinking I'll probably invest in a 5MPL Firestarter and focus on out-flanking/assassinating rather than "bulldogging" my way into the middle of an enemy team with a brawler, or sniping. I've had great success with the Raven, and to a lesser extent, the Griffin.

My only beef I have with the Raven is how easy it is to CT.

Edited by Ehsahn, 02 September 2015 - 06:20 AM.

[Elizander]

Some people won't have the patience to grind c-bills purely on trial mechs. They want to own something right away, that is why IS mechs are recommended. HBKs can run on standard engines too so that reduces the cost significantly.

Edited by Elizander, 02 September 2015 - 06:24 AM.

[Torezu]

If you are patient enough to grind c-bills on trial mechs, though, grind on the same variant you plan to buy (champion or not), because you'll accumulator mech XP for it that way.

[Kurvi]

Not very experienced player here, but it might actually be faster to get a cheap, reasonble mech (i.e. hunchback) and grind with it than to use trial mechs until you have enough to get that "perfect" mech. If nothing else, you can actually spend those per-mech experience points and get some nice upgrades.

Random question: Did you manage to get the bonus c-bills in the last event? I had a lot easier time achieving the 150 match score in my Griffin than in the current clan trial mech.

[dragnier1]

You might need 10 mil for the firestarter. It's a good mech, spreads damage well and is agile with a good engine. Runs, hot.

[Khereg]

The Stormcrow (SCR) remains one of the most versatile and enjoyable mechs in the game. For a new player, you have the chance to elite a SCR chassis by buying 3 different models which you kit out to serve different roles,

The SCR-C or PRIME is the go-to laser vomit build. Put 6 MPL's on it and go to town. Just watch the heat.

The SCR-D is the premier streak mech in the game. Go with 5 SSRM 6's and hunt lights all day long. You'll get trolled by folks calling it the skillcrow, but as a new player, you should learn this chassis and you'll eventually graduate from it. Don't let the trolling bother you.

The SCR-A can be kitted to carry 13 (!) SPL's, making it a deadly short range brawler. Again, watch the heat.

There are other viable SCR builds as well, but most have a similar theme to one of the above. Bottom line, by staying with a versatile chassis you can learn different play styles (and avoid getting bored) while gathering the three versions you'll need to complete the skill tree and get to the elite level where any mech really shines.

The IS equivalent is the Hunchback (HBK):

4J is a LRM specialist

Grid Iron is a gauss beast (although as a Hero mech, it costs real money)

I forget which model is designed for the AC-20

And the one built for laser vomit...

But you definitely have options.

Good luck and have fun.

Edited by Khereg, 02 September 2015 - 09:18 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Ehsahn, on 02 September 2015 - 04:48 AM, said:

So, I've seen a lot of "What should my first mech be" etc etc posts, but it seems like not a lot of research has been done by the poster(s) as far as what's relevant. I guess I'll start by saying I've done my research. I've recently started playing and have been poring over every "competetive", well-written site/guide since.

As far as tier-listing/winning statistics goes it seems like Clan mechs are always highest (with Madcat-Timber, and Direwolf consistantly being highest in both).

So my question is this.

I see a lot of people recommending people start off buying mechs that later become relatively obsolete in terms of the metagame and was wondering why I shouldn't just save up every C-bill I can until I can afford one of these bad boys and save myself some time leveling up less-fortunate mechs ?

Maybe I'm missing something, and if I am, please let me know.

the top tier competitave MEchs usualy require a lot of skill and experiance to get the best out of, the Hunchback is the most recommended starter Mech with good reason:
each variant is a specialist in a different weapon type
because it has a big target on one torso you will learn useful skills like twisting to mitigate damage much faster which will later help you get more out of e.g. the Stormcrow or Timber Wolf
the skills you learn will be highly transferable to later Mechs unlike e.g. the Stormcrow which spreads damage with no effort so if you switch to another Mceh it would be almost like starting again unless you had already learned the basics on something else
it can be fairly fast
it runs well with an upgraded stock loadout (endo steel, double heatsinks, larger engine)
it is better off without an expensive XL engine
eliting Hunchbacks will cost you about 20 million compaired to 35+ million for a Stormcrow or 44+ million for the Timber Wolf.

as a new player DO NOT get a Dire Wolf unless you will usualy be dropping with a group of freinds,
the Dire has the most damage potential of any Mech due to its 50 tonnes for weapons with max armor, however it is really slow and sluggish, to the point that if an Atlas (another 100 ton assault Mech) manages to get close to you it can stay behind you and rip you apart with you having trouble bringing your guns to bear against it, a lone Dire Wolf is a dead Dire Wolf.
To use it effectively you need friends to protect you, and in the solo queue it is pure chance as to weather or not you will have that help where as if you are with a team your teammates will be able to keep the enemy off you allowing you to use your 50 tons of guns to bring in crazy amounts of damage and kills

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 03 September 2015 - 02:15 AM.

[Ildar Jotun]

I've started playing about a month ago, and like you, my thought was: I'd like to start in an effective, long term useful mech. So here is my experience, hope you find it useful.

I bought the Stormcrow, which is a great mech, but as someone said earlier, it's not an I Win button. Every mech in the game has its strenghts and weaknesses, and you must learn to torso twist and follow the basic guidelines in combat to the letter. I've been killed many times with my CT destroyed and the peripheral armor in the yellow...
Later on I've bought a light mech (Arctic Cheetah) which I love and have mastered fully, and a heavy mech, the Timber Wolf, which I suck badly at. It's quite normal for me getting twice the c-bills in the Cheetah than in the Wolf. And even doing more damage...
So, my opinion about starting mechs is: test the trial mechs, test the weight class you're most comfortable on, and choose a mech you're having fun with and are efficient on. Heavier chassis are not always better. We all love driving a death machine with 30 tons in weapons, but maybe we're not all that efficient with it.

Edit: I've got 3 chassis of each mech. I've Elited Cheetah, and Stormcrow is almost there. I plan on mastering all of them one day, but the Timber Wolves are damn hard to play correctly, it'll take me longer to master one chassis on the TW than 3 of the AC. Patience...

Edited by Ildar Jotun, 03 September 2015 - 03:42 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Ildar Jotun, on 03 September 2015 - 03:37 AM, said:

I've started playing about a month ago, and like you, my thought was: I'd like to start in an effective, long term useful mech. So here is my experience, hope you find it useful.

I bought the Stormcrow, which is a great mech, but as someone said earlier, it's not an I Win button. Every mech in the game has its strenghts and weaknesses, and you must learn to torso twist and follow the basic guidelines in combat to the letter. I've been killed many times with my CT destroyed and the peripheral armor in the yellow...
Later on I've bought a light mech (Arctic Cheetah) which I love and have mastered fully, and a heavy mech, the Timber Wolf, which I suck badly at. It's quite normal for me getting twice the c-bills in the Cheetah than in the Wolf. And even doing more damage...
So, my opinion about starting mechs is: test the trial mechs, test the weight class you're most comfortable on, and choose a mech you're having fun with and are efficient on. Heavier chassis are not always better. We all love driving a death machine with 30 tons in weapons, but maybe we're not all that efficient with it.

excellent points, just because I like a specific Mech does not mean someone else will, the Timber Wolf and Stormcrow are widely considered to be the best 2 Mechs in the game, however is is not uncommon for people to think them complete junk, sometimes it is people who thought they would be twice as good as any other Mech ^{(instead it is probably more like 10-40% better depending on the Mech)}, in other cases they are to responsive for someone who prefers assaults or not responsive enough for people who prefer lights, in other cases they get focus fired early ^{(as most consider those the best Mechs they will be targeted before almost anything else, so despite the fact the Timby and Crow are very durable for there weight and amount of armor that does not help much if 4-12 Mechs are shooting at you)}
try all the trial Mechs and see what you like or dislike, including handling and weapon systems then we can offer better tailored advice

[TercieI]

A lot of people who give advice in New Players (or these forums in general) aren't competive minded players (HPGOutreach on reddit has a much stronger population). This is another big reason. If that's what your goal is, then you're wise to skip the mechs you rightly observe are "largely obsolete." I always recommend SCRs to new players because they can do a variety of things and are fast and tough. The TBR is also an excellent choice for similar reasons. I'd avoid the DWF. It's extremely unforgiving, especially if you lack map knowledge (but it's broken in skilled hands, especially in groups).

If you go SCRs, you can pick any three. The CTs are all the same, so you can swap pods to do whatever you want. If you go TBRs, the S is a must-buy and the A/C/D are all the same. The Prime is the weakest, but if you want max options, you'll want to pick it up.

Full disclosure: I'm a comp player, but I also play Pokemech, I own every chassis. And FWIW, play style only goes so far. If you want to be really good, you have to learn to adapt to the mech rather than just trying to find the mech that fits you best (though that's a good starting place!)

Edited by Terciel1976, 03 September 2015 - 04:49 AM.

[Ano]

Jimmy DiGriz, on 02 September 2015 - 05:13 AM, said:

Regarding the "metagame" why focus on that? Unless you are in one of the highest competitive teams it has very little bearing on day-to-day play. Personally I focus on the mechs I have the most fun playing, good or bad, and they tend to be the ones I like the look of!

It's a good point -- unless your intent is to be in a comp team, it's not necessary to only buy mechs from the top tier unless they happen to appeal to you. If they do, go right ahead!

Ehsahn, on 02 September 2015 - 05:18 AM, said:

I just suppose that I just want to avoid being "that poor *******" whose first mech purchases were Commando/Awesome In my mind, going in the opposite direction is logical.

Heh. My first mech was a Commando. It was awful and I hated it, but I shopped before I forum-surfed . There are definitely mechs which are harder to play, but that includes some of the very best ones. For example, a lot of players (new and old) struggle with very slow mechs, and so even though in the hands of a good pilot the Dire Wolf is 100 tons of concentrated death, they can be 100 tons of free kill if piloted by someone with poor map knowledge or experience with the game, as it's very hard to recover from a positional mistake in a mech that slow.

Rhavin, on 02 September 2015 - 06:00 AM, said:

I always suggest the hunchback.

...

That said buying the mech you want to pilot is the smartest thing a new player can do.

I think there are a couple of reasons why you'll have seen people recommending Hunchbacks.
* They're fairly cheap, even after the heatsink and endo upgrades
* Most of them run best with a STD engine, so no pricey XLs to buy
* The Hunchback family lets you try out most of the major weapon systems to see which ones work for you; lasers on the 4p (mediums to fit the quirks, but you can experiment); ballistics on the 4g and 4h (which are quirked for the AC20 and AC10 respectively), SRMs on the 4SP, LRMs on the 4J. Additionally, thanks to a likely-to-be-reduced quirk, the Grid Iron hero mech is a gauss machine gun.
* because of the range of weapons, you can try a bunch of playstyles. Fast striker (4p with 9ML/275STD), missile brawler (4SP w/ SRMS), AC brawler (4g), DPS style (4h), LRMing (4J). You could also try out some sniping with the 4p or ideally the Grid Iron.
* While it's a bit variable at the moment with the Shadowcat still leaning on the queue, the medium queue is usually a good place to be w.r.t getting matches, and medium mechs give you a little more leeway than lights/assaults (enough armour to take a punch, enough speed to run away etc)

Rhavin's right though -- if there's a mech you want, then get it (provided it's not a *terrible* mech), and if there's a trial available pilot the snot out of that first.

[Spare Parts Bin]

I would suggest three Adders. They are fast for Clan lights they are great for LRM or SRM or Laser Vomit. They should be relatively cheap and are underrated by most enemies.

[bad arcade kitty]

people usually recommend good mechs for new players
one of the most popular suggestions it's hunchback or stormcrow, hunch is cheaper, stormcrow is stronger, hunch arguably can teach you to play better faster because crow is sometimes pretty forgiving (though new players manage to kill their crows pretty fast too); timber is harder to play than stormcrow albeit it's stronger; generally meta mechs and meta loadouts don't mean they are easy to play, gauss vomit is kind of tricky, laser vomit need considerable heat management, and for instance arctic cheetah being played by a new player will be just a disaster etc

then, if you plan to join an inner sphere unit/faction you need inner sphere mechs

[Chados]

I think a lot of IS players go IS because of affiliation with the lore. Others because they have to have IS mechs for CW since I think you have to be Clan to run Clan tech in CW.

I never have been a Clan fan. Even in MW2 I rolled with a Rifleman II because it was as close to IS tech as I could get. But that said, trashborn tech is head and shoulders better than IS-their lights play like mediums; their mediums like heavies; and their assaults make an Atlas look weak in comparison. There is a reason that competitive players prefer Clan tech. Metamechs, the Holy Writ of all things "meta," has ONLY Clan mechs in Tier 1 for PUGland. Because they are just better.

But I still prefer the IS. That's personal, I just don't like the Clans.