26 replies to this topic

[VinJade]

@Spleenslitta
the range should be increased to LRM range as that was one of the things that made it a nice weapon to have at it could out range 90%+ of all the weapons in the game, then later on to get people to use the old ACs they gave them the new ammunition types.

and yes I do believe that they should come close to matching their TT counter part and seeing as the AC 2 IS nothing more than a glorified MG it should reflect that regardless of it being a video game.

don't like the damage then go with something else.

fixing the range would be very helpful and maybe introduce the new munition earlier than they are in the TT game to give them some extra boost.. however people would then most likely gripe about the amount of shot's per ton as they would be reduced by half.

besides as others have said pgi is trying to stick as close to lore as they can so before claiming I think that everything should match the TT game, should think about that.

PGI want's to stick to lore then they need to match it as much as they can. I personally don't mind the increase of shells per ton, nor do I mind if they get a little faster.

In the end I have every right to compare it to their board game counter part so unless pgi divorces the game from Battletech then they need to follow as closely as they can to the source.

[Spleenslitta]

Regardless i do think the Light Rifle could become usefull with my suggestion of making them into crit seeker and/or give it internal structure bonus damage.
It would only do 0.5 damage against armor.
If we got the wild unpredictable version for crits and a single Light rifle shell hits an unarmored section....things go nuts.

It would be like 37 or 38 pieces of shrapnel that behaves like MG bullets hiting a single section all at once.
That's 38 shrapnel pieces doing 0.08 base damage each but with a 39% chance to crit a single component like a heatsink.
22% chance to crit 2 components and 6% chance to crit 3 components.
Each criting piece of shrapnel does 1350% base damage just like an MG bullet.

Chances are good you will crit about 20-25 worth of damage to all components inside the unarmored section you hit because of that 22% chance of criting 2 components at once.
If you got incredible luck you might crit for a lot more like 40 damage. All this with a single light rifle shell as long as you hit an unarmored section.

Then imagine if the medium and heavy rifles got splash damage. Easier to hit an unarmored section and the amount of destroyed components could be enourmous.
113 pieces of shrapnel for the heavy and 75 for the medium.
In short rifles would be amongst the deadliest weapons in the later part of a match.

But then there are the more moderate crit chance versions that's more predictable and far more limited in what can happen.

[VinJade]

so in other words you want an over powered weapon that can more or less destroy a mech faster than a vibroblade cutting down an unarmored infantry?

[Void2258]

The machine gun is already a crit seeker. We don't need a slightly heavier crit seeker.

The real reason PGI likes to stick to cannon is so they don't have to think too much about variants. If they changed the weight on something they would have to go in and readjust every mech that uses that piece of equipment.

[wanderer]

Void2258, on 11 September 2015 - 07:20 PM, said:

The machine gun is already a crit seeker. We don't need a slightly heavier crit seeker.

The real reason PGI likes to stick to cannon is so they don't have to think too much about variants. If they changed the weight on something they would have to go in and readjust every mech that uses that piece of equipment.

Actually, it's because it'd break stock configs without fail. They don't actually stick to canon on things like weapon stats other than tonnage and crit spaces taken up.

[Spleenslitta]

VinJade, on 11 September 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

so in other words you want an over powered weapon that can more or less destroy a mech faster than a vibroblade cutting down an unarmored infantry?

Against armor it's capacity for damage is laughably low for it's weight. It cannot crit internal components through the armor you know.
It would have lower shell velocity than the AC so accuracy would be lower.
The firerate would be very low. Slowest loading weapon in the game probably. I would not be surprised with a 7-8 second cooldown between shots on the heavy rifle.
Maybe even 10 seconds...that's twice as slow as an LRM20.

If you don't like the shrapnel idea why not pick one of the other crit chance methods i had in the link?
One of them had a very high crit chance but gets only one chance to crit. Another method had lower crit chance but 3 chances to crit.
All those stats could be adjusted till it was balanced.
If you have a suggestion on how those stats should be adjusted speak. Or maybe you got a totally different idea on how to do it?

Do you have an idea for how to make the rifles usefull while still having the same weight, crit slots, slow projectile speed, slow reload, a heavy penalty against armor?
If you do i'd like to see it. Keep in mind that PGI won't lower the weight and crit slots on weapons because of the reason Wanderer mentioned below.

Ignoring the armor penalty? Sure i'd go with that as well....but i doubt PGI would do it since it's one of the main reasons the rifles got replaced by the AC's.
The floors yours Vinjade....give us your idea on how to make the rifle usefull with all those restrictions.

wanderer, on 11 September 2015 - 08:04 PM, said:

Actually, it's because it'd break stock configs without fail. They don't actually stick to canon on things like weapon stats other than tonnage and crit spaces taken up.

Exactly. Any suggestions on how the rifles could be made usefull and still have the same weight and crit slots?
I sincerely doubt PGI would not remove that -3 damage against armor...except that small 0.5 damage adjustment i suppose.

Another way to do it would be to give rifles bonus damage against internal structure. For example.
Light rifle gets +5 damage against internal structure on top of the 3 base damage...that's 8 damage per shell against unarmored sections.
Medium has +10 structure damage and 6 base damage.
Heavy +15 structure damage and 9 base damage.

And before Vinjade gets into another fit....those stats could be adjusted on the drop of a hat....Those are my examples.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 12 September 2015 - 12:02 AM.

[Spleenslitta]

Void2258, on 11 September 2015 - 07:20 PM, said:

The machine gun is already a crit seeker. We don't need a slightly heavier crit seeker.

It's a crit seeker with more focused damage, better range and the facetime is minimal. The MG has a constant barrage of bullets while rifle shells do it with a slow firerate and shells that has very low velocity.
These 2 crit seeker weapons could not be any more different. Their only common ground is a high crit chance.

Spleenslitta, on 12 September 2015 - 12:00 AM, said:

If you have a suggestion on how those stats should be adjusted speak. Or maybe you got a totally different idea on how to do it?

Do you have an idea for how to make the rifles usefull while still having the same weight, crit slots, slow projectile speed, slow reload, a heavy penalty against armor?
If you do i'd like to see it. Keep in mind that PGI won't lower the weight and crit slots on weapons because of the reason Wanderer mentioned below.

Ignoring the armor penalty? Sure i'd go with that as well....but i doubt PGI would do it since it's one of the main reasons the rifles got replaced by the AC's.
The floors yours Vinjade....give us your idea on how to make the rifle usefull with all those restrictions.

And then Vinjade went totally silent......seems he doesn't have any new ideas about how the rifles could be made usefull while sticking close to the lore like PGI want to.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 13 September 2015 - 04:25 AM.