116 replies to this topic

[Lugh]

I've only ever seen this fellow in Ravens, so let's not worry about a more broadly formed mech having trouble against a specialist in knife fighting.

Get yourself some FS9s and you'll be fine.

[Mystere]

Praetor Knight, on 09 September 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

I wonder what effect restoring SPL damage to 3 would have on Firestarter As and the typical Cheetah builds?

0% light mechs in the public queue?

[Yellonet]

Cathy, on 09 September 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

you had me right up to the point you said the Ach has a more powerful alpha than the Firestarter, then I felt your credible post is just a rant

Well I guess I was thinking about good builds that you often see rather than just maximizing alpha.

[Yellonet]

1453 R, on 09 September 2015 - 11:53 AM, said:

Then what do you suggest be done to the Cheetah?

The most prevalent request seems to be removing its leg structure quirks so the legs come off at the first medium laser graze, but without information on The Big Rebalance coming soon, I'm hesitant to swing the hammer harder than it's already been swung. Remember - the Cheetah has only seven tons of gear if it goes with ECM and max armor, and it just lost a lot of extra durability above the hips.

If you pwnooblerate the thing, and then The Big Rebalance comes out and Clan energy gets hammered the way a lot of folks are figuring it will, then we have a Cheetah which has been overnerfed into pointlessness. This won't even solve the problem permanently - we have Jenner IICs coming that will also have 6E variants available, if not with ECM, but with the advantage of unlocked engines.

If the hitboxes are legitimately broken, they need to be fixed. I'm not convinced they are, but if they are that's top priority. After a hitbox pass, investigate what needs to actually be done. I would argue that implementing the long-planned cXL shoulder destruction penalties, which would incur a 20% speed penalty on the Cheetah as well as significant heat hits, would probably be enough to bring the thing into line, combined as it would be with the loss of arm/shoulder quirks.

The Arctic Cheetah is the Clans' first competitive high-speed machine. It would be a shame to ruin it completely because of a rocky start, hm?

Yes, I do not want to make the Cheetah uncompetitive, but it needs to come down a few steps, penalties after ST loss would probably be a step in the right direction.

Lugh, on 09 September 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

I've only ever seen this fellow in Ravens, so let's not worry about a more broadly formed mech having trouble against a specialist in knife fighting.

Get yourself some FS9s and you'll be fine.

I have the A and S mastered. But even in those I know I'm at a disadvantage against a Cheetah; it can destroy me easier (weaker legs and ST death) and it can jump better which depending on the terrain can be an important factor.

[Mystere]

Yellonet, on 09 September 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

Yes, I do not want to make the Cheetah uncompetitive, but it needs to come down a few steps, penalties after ST loss would probably be a step in the right direction.

But that comes at the cost of further marginalizing all under-performing Clan Mechs, given that that is the kind of penalty people have been asking for with regard to the Clan XL.

[Yellonet]

Mystere, on 09 September 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

But that comes at the cost of further marginalizing all under-performing Clan Mechs, given that that is the kind of penalty people have been asking for with regard to the Clan XL.

It would be better to deal with the reason why they are under-performing rather than holding them under the arms with tech that makes other mechs godly.

[TheCharlatan]

Looks like you are just burnt out.
MWO tends to do that, to all of us.
Take a 1-2 week break.
You'll feel better afterwards, and blow out Cheaters without a sweat.
Just my 2cents.

[Tuefel Hunden]

Juodas Varnas, on 09 September 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

They're impossible to hit, because nobody plays them anymore.
Seriously, i can't remember the last time, i saw one in-game.

I see them every drop. Course, I am playing CW....

[Yosharian]

Tuefel Hunden, on 09 September 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

I think Spiders should be removed from the game!!! The daggone things are impossible to hit.

Spiders have maybe 1/3 the damage output that a Firestarter or ACH has.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Mystere, on 09 September 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

0% light mechs in the public queue?

No.

[Lugh]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b7c4d690f5216af

Now you out range the cheetah with as much (in most cases) firepower and better heat management.

Yellonet, on 09 September 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

It would be better to deal with the reason why they are under-performing rather than holding them under the arms with tech that makes other mechs godly.

The reason they are under-performing by and large is they are not as fast as other lights, Mediums with too little armor and not enough firepower. With the amount of crying that goes on here, giving them more speed for slightly less firepower. Will only increase the crying for more nerfs on clan equipment.

[Gas Guzzler]

Dude, just no. They are just about as difficult to leg as a Firestarter. It is not hard, I think you just need to work on your aim, and realize that if you are getting swarmed by more than one of them, you were out of position or your team already lost. If you are literally thinking about quitting the game because of the Cheetah, I don't even know what to say. It is a light, you shoot its legs it dies.

[Yellonet]

Lugh, on 09 September 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b7c4d690f5216af

Now you out range the cheetah with as much (in most cases) firepower and better heat management.

But it's slower, thus easier to hit, still as fragile and with regular lasers it's more difficult to get damage on target.

[Mawai]

The biggest problem I see with balancing any mechs is that IF the issue is actually hit box registration ... the problem that needs to be fixed first is proper hit registration.

If there is some quirk in the geometry that does not work well with the hit detection code then that really needs to be fixed FIRST before they "balance" the mech since when the hit detection IS fixed as will eventually happen then the mech goes from being ok to substandard. Of course, they could fix it then but PGI has a terrible track record of leaving things broken for long periods of time. (For example, before HSR they buffed PPCs since they could not hit the broad side of a barn, then when HSR was introduced PPCs became OP and they had to nerf them ... maybe over-nerf ... but it took a while for that change to be made).

As for the Arctic Cheetah .. I will have to evaluate it in game .. but with the release of new mechs it may become somewhat less prevalent.

[Johnny Z]

I wouldnt be surprised if this was part of the upcomming rebalance, explaining "it will change the way the game is played" comment but maybe an energy pool is being added.

This is a sim right? Why is the reactor energy of mechs not taken into account limiting speed, firepower etc. Its strange older games have had this but Battle Tech/Mechwarrior hasnt yet.

If an energy/reactor pool is added it may limit the number of energy weapons discharged at one time and at what speeds as well as making LRM's ballistics more effective!!

In all honesty I would not be surprised if this is added soon.

There all the problems solved. Thank me later.

Edited by Johnny Z, 09 September 2015 - 12:47 PM.

[KharnZor]

Kira_Onime, on 09 September 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

They're not.
Enjoy

This times 100.
If you cant kill cheetos you are bad at this game. simple.

Edited by KharnZor, 09 September 2015 - 12:48 PM.

[Deathpactt]

I feel like just the opposite. All light should be like cheetah and firestarter. No I am not a light pilot.

[Alistair Winter]

Just out of curiosity... do you own any ACH's yourself?

[Summon3r]

it is absolutely hilarious that complaints about the fs9 went ignored for what almost 2 years now? and now a clan mech that can compete with it comes out and boom nerfbat engaged within a month

[Nightmare1]

Yellonet, on 09 September 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

I thought that this was a game that I could play for a long time, I like sci-fi, I like mechs, the BT universe seems rather interesting and I've already invested a bit of money in the game.
Unfortunately I'm starting to get more and more angry and frustrated when playing and discussing the game, and that's not how I want to feel when I'm supposed to have fun.

The overwhelming reason is spelled Arctic Cheetah. I just can't get around the fact that it's allowed to be so ridiculously overpowered compared to anything else.
In a game where most if not all other mechs are a compromise of some sort the ACH is not, it has it all, godlike hitboxes, C-XL, speed, great alpha, great JJ, ECM.

Seeing game after game literally being decided by who has the most ACHs is just not fun.
The crushing feeling that when I go up against an ACH one on one that I have maybe 25% chance of winning that duel just sucks the life out of this game for me.

I really thought that PGI would fix it so that it would come down to a reasonable level, but instead all we get is a punch in the face that they call balance.
I really don't understand how a game company can so blatantly underestimate the need for good balance, not just overall, but in each part of a game.
In a competitive multiplayer game, balance is everything.

I'm not giving up completely yet, but as it stands it's just not fun any longer.
Sadly, as things are, I think PGI will find it very difficult to keep new players like me interested for very long. But maybe they don't care?

Flame away.

You should try being around as long as I have then. You'd have had a coronary by now, I'm sure.

PGI has already stated that they'll fix the Cheetah. It'll happen, just at the same old speed at which PGI has always moved; slowly.

Regardless, rant threads by relatively new players don't really help a whole lot. Patience friend!