82 replies to this topic

[VirtualRiot]

Question:
Which set of LRMs is the most effective? Four LRM 5, 2 LRM 10, 1 LRM 20.
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Hypothesis:
Since all sets of LRMs launch 20 missiles, they should be similarly effective by salvo size (ex. 1 salvo of 4 LRM 5 should be as effective as 1 salvo of 1 LRM 20). They will be dis-similar in time to kill as LRM 5 has shorter cooldown.
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Experiment:
Tested the various combinations on a GRF-2N on Frozen city against the same target @210m. All tests were preformed with Artemis IV FCS. All variables were equal apart from the LRMs.
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Results:
4x LRM 5: Target destroyed in 14 seconds using 5 volleys.
2x LRM 10: Target destroyed in 20 seconds using 6 volleys
1x LRM 20: Target destroyed in 49 seconds using 11 volleys.
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Conclusion:
4x LRM 5 displayed ~350% faster kill time vs 1x LRM 20 and 143% faster kill time vs 2x LRM 10.
4x LRM 5 used 2.2 times less ammo to kill that target vs 1x LRM 20 and 1.2 times vs 2x LRM 10.
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Final Thoughts:
LRM 10 and 20 spread should be reduced to have a similar salvo kill time versus LRM 5.

[Bilbo]

VirtualRiot, on 09 September 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

....
Final Thoughts:
LRM 10 and 20 spread should be reduced to have a similar salvo kill time versus LRM 5.

Do you want to see lurmageddon. That is how you get lurmageddon.

[CDLord HHGD]

Which mech did you test against and were you front facing for each?

[Poisoner]

Why did you not test lurm 15 and why did you not test with Artemis?

[VirtualRiot]

cdlord, on 09 September 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

Which mech did you test against and were you front facing for each?

It was against a Comando 1-B, I was front facing at the same angle for each test.

Poisoner, on 09 September 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

Why did you not test lurm 15 and why did you not test with Artemis?

Because I could not have the same salvo size versus the other LRMs (multiples of 20) An experiment must be done with all other things equal *edit Also I did use artemis please read the post more carefully

Edited by VirtualRiot, 09 September 2015 - 01:28 PM.

[Murphy7]

I like what you are doing - I suggest trying a few different targets, same parameters as otherwise as your ammo holds out.

Something larger with multiple repetitions across each should get you more of the information you are looking for.

[MischiefSC]

So 4xalrm5 is hotter and heavier than 1x alrm20.

That is why.

Edited by MischiefSC, 09 September 2015 - 01:17 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Bilbo, on 09 September 2015 - 01:07 PM, said:

Do you want to see lurmageddon. That is how you get lurmageddon.

Nah, it would just make them less terrible weapons.


They've always suffered.

[VirtualRiot]

MischiefSC, on 09 September 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

So 4xalrm5 is hotter and heavier than 1x alrm20.

That is why.

The heat from 4 lrm 5 is 8
The heat from 1 lrm 20 is 6
4 lrm 5 weighs 12 tonns with arty
1 lrm 20 weighs 11 tonns with arty

4 LRM 4 is only 33% hotter and weighs only 9% more for a hypothetical ~350% increase in effectiveness in time to kill while using less ammo.

[Bilbo]

Mcgral18, on 09 September 2015 - 01:20 PM, said:

Nah, it would just make them less terrible weapons.


They've always suffered.

They suffer from a spread damage standpoint. Bring the lrm20 spread down to the point the OP suggests and you move into obliteration territory when carrying more than one.

[mike29tw]

Future work: experiment whether LRM spread is affected when a single launcher has to fire in split salvo due to missile tubes limitations on certain hardpoints.

[Barantor]

Bilbo, on 09 September 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

They suffer from a spread damage standpoint. Bring the lrm20 spread down to the point the OP suggests and you move into obliteration territory when carrying more than one.

How many mechs can carry more than one and be able to fire the full set of missiles in one volley?

I would be fine with that, IF they took out indirect fire for LRMs except when narced. Devoting that much tonnage to a weapon should earn you the ability to kick some ass.

A narced and tagged enemy within line of sight of the LRM mech with artemis should be friggin decimated by the LRMs, because they dicked up that much.

[Idealsuspect]

VirtualRiot, on 09 September 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

Question:
Which set of LRMs is the most effective? Four LRM 5, 2 LRM 10, 1 LRM 20.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hypothesis:
Since all sets of LRMs launch 20 missiles, they should be similarly effective by salvo size (ex. 1 salvo of 4 LRM 5 should be as effective as 1 salvo of 1 LRM 20). They will be dis-similar in time to kill as LRM 5 has shorter cooldown.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Experiment:
Tested the various combinations on a GRF-2N on Frozen city against the same target @210m. All tests were preformed with Artemis IV FCS. All variables were equal apart from the LRMs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Results:
4x LRM 5: Target destroyed in 14 seconds using 5 volleys.
2x LRM 10: Target destroyed in 20 seconds using 6 volleys
1x LRM 20: Target destroyed in 49 seconds using 11 volleys.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion:
4x LRM 5 displayed ~350% faster kill time vs 1x LRM 20 and 143% faster kill time vs 2x LRM 10.
4x LRM 5 used 2.2 times less ammo to kill that target vs 1x LRM 20 and 1.2 times vs 2x LRM 10.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Thoughts:
LRM 10 and 20 spread should be reduced to have a similar salvo kill time versus LRM 5.

Nice test !!
About your final throughts i would say "LRM 5 spread should be increase to have a similar salvo kill time versus LRM 10 and 20."

[Pjwned]

I do agree that bigger launchers should have less spread than they do now, but I think you might be reaching a bit of a faulty conclusion if you're using 4 Artemis launchers vs 2 or 1. I think it makes enough sense that when you invest 4 extra tons and 4 extra slots on top of already using up 3 more hardpoints, that means better performance than 1 Artemis launcher.

[Bilbo]

Barantor, on 09 September 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

How many mechs can carry more than one and be able to fire the full set of missiles in one volley?

I would be fine with that, IF they took out indirect fire for LRMs except when narced. Devoting that much tonnage to a weapon should earn you the ability to kick some ass.

A narced and tagged enemy within line of sight of the LRM mech with artemis should be friggin decimated by the LRMs, because they dicked up that much.

They don't need to fire the full set in a single volley. Chain fired would be quite enough. You know as well as anyone how deadly they can be if the spread were significantly reduced. A damage increase would be preferable.

[MischiefSC]

The heat scales up in heat per second. Your advantage is taking comes from faster rof, so the 4xlrm5 is generating more heat more quickly by firing more quickly. Heat per second is about double.

also It.takes up 4 hard points vs 1.

The idea being that mechs with more missile hard points have less other spots for weapons so they can stack numerous smaller launchers to better effect than a mech with, say 5 energy and 2 missile hard points can.

[Nightmare1]

I've always been partial to LRM 10s. I know the 5 has better grouping, the the extra missiles from the 10 are sure nice when facing an AMS field.

[Otto Cannon]

4xLRM5 uses four hardpoints, an LRM20 uses one.

[Jman5]

I'm not entirely certain, but it's possible that Artemis is non-functional in testing ground. I know TAG and NARC do not work, so these results might just be non-artemis numbers.

One thing I really want to see is how the bigger LRMs preform in ideal scenarios with Artemis, TAG, and NARC. It stands to reason that you get diminishing returns on spread reduction as it narrows in.

[El Bandito]

VirtualRiot, on 09 September 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

It was against a Comando 1-B, I was front facing at the same angle for each test.

Now do the same against an Atlas.