772 replies to this topic

[Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf]

@ all the guys arguing that sensors are useless:


You think that sensors are somewhat useless now, but keep in mind that PGI can take active steps to make sensors become useful. They can lower visibility ranges, add fog, remove night vision and what else.

Just because it might seem useless now, doesn't mean it has to stay that way.

[ShinVector]

MischiefSC, on 11 September 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

So, current feedback is -

The IW stuff is a bust. Pointless. Paperdoll is largely a crutch and always has been, anyone who's played enough only needs it periodically anyway. In no way, shape or form does it equate to a balancing metric between mechs - more damage = better by a massive margin.

Without weapon quirks IS tech is badly out-matched. Badly. I just face-tanked down a Mauler in a Timber Wolf last match. I haven't died yet, in any match, and I play pretty suicidally. I stop killing people when my mech gets hot, I cool down and go kill them again.

Quirks made dakka and SRMs semi-viable (at least on some mechs). Without those quirks there is no viable IS dakka or SRM builds that are anything above tier 3. *maybe* AC20 King Crab. *Maybe* that's still upper edge of tier 3 or lower tier 2 on the right map.

The PTS just feels.... broken to me I guess. Makes me a bit sad.

I am guessing they are going just changing the approach... RESET IS quirks and later nerf Clans in general.

[Unit47]

Terrible idea. Information warfare is completely useless and will be ignored by the people who know what they are doing.

Edited by Unit47, 11 September 2015 - 04:07 PM.

[Gumon Choji]

This looks interesting as long as the build is kept important. But it also looks like a real pain for you all. Also on a side note the lack of sensor range as an element will have many min maxers try to find mechs that lose this category to get the other ones up. Look at the games where players kill or shoot at mechs they are not targeting. Or rather the number of times players do not hit R.

[Monky]

Ok after getting in and seeing the quirks, wow what the heck is going on? Mechs that are terrible are nerfed, mechs that are great actually have positive quirks?

You can't take the 'information' widget and swap it with the 'firepower' widget. Those are not comparable. Mobility and armor can both to an extent be compared to firepower because you can dodge or absorb fire.... information only allows you to have somewhat better knowledge to work with in a given situation.

Get your balancing waders on and get real about this issue.

[quantaca]

Well this idea would have been nice if you first had balanced the is and clan weapons more and then you could have used small quirks to add some differences and give some chassis /variants some boosts to make up for their lack of hardpoints/podspace or their "bad" hardpoint location.

All this was now was a huge waste of recources and development time, and now you want me to waste even more(of my own) time in the pts and writing feedback without any compensation in the real game ... tbh i would have gladly done it if the basis was even halfway decent, you got too hung up on those few loudmouths who want information warfare over shooting other mechs.

As a side note im sure the IW changes will have an impact on (lower lvl) solo que where info isnt shared though chat or comms and im sureill see a whole lot more of people just standing around clueless because they dont know where to move because there is no friggin red dot on the map while im being shot at by 3 enemy mechs

[MischiefSC]

My big concern is that all this is KEPT on the PTS until Clan/IS balance is done.

Please, dear god please, don't release this to public until after all the balancing between IS and Clan is done. Right now if you can't put up 400+ damage pugging in a Clan mech you need to finish your 25 cadet matches. An IS vs Clan environment right now (like CW) would be totally and completely broken.

[Docta Pain]

The red "F3" map grid labels above friendly mechs makes brawling VERY difficult. I see a mech but there is red above its head so I don't shoot it. when an enemy is stacked infront of or behind an enemy visibly I cant tell which is which. please revise this. make friendly grids blue. easy fix to a bad implementation of a good idea.

[Enforcer X]

I seriously hope that you dont take away unique feats like the ones achieved with the current quirk system. eg: The HBK-GI with its rapid firing gauss (with it's big hunch that you can't hide and XL vulnerability), the thunderbolt feared turtle of death full of MPL, the AWS-9M tanky sniper or the Huggin with its high, although risky (you need to expose your CT to fire! and be on range), SRM dps rain of death.

I hope not only you don't remove these, instead encourage different "weird" mechs with this kind of assymetric complexities (currently not in meta) to let different pilots shine in different ways and make this game more rich than it is!

Best regards, and thank you for listening to the comunity, that is always good!

P.D: I'm not a fan of Clan mechs ... they are very expensive and look pretty similar to me with all the omnipod flexibility thing and the plenty of variations that you can do to a single chassis (actually variants doesn't make any sense... just to level to elite!)

Edited by Enforcer X, 11 September 2015 - 04:24 PM.

[Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf]

MischiefSC, on 11 September 2015 - 04:13 PM, said:

My big concern is that all this is KEPT on the PTS until Clan/IS balance is done.

Please, dear god please, don't release this to public until after all the balancing between IS and Clan is done. Right now if you can't put up 400+ damage pugging in a Clan mech you need to finish your 25 cadet matches. An IS vs Clan environment right now (like CW) would be totally and completely broken.

Calm down srsly.
And read the initial post from Paul again.

[GholaTrooper]

This information sounds nice cool and all but lets be honest NOBODY in organized drops uses that.
People who have any semblance of teamwork set up targeting areas on enemy mechs before the game even starts, then it boils down to target calling and focusing enemy targets, most mechs get killed before targeting data is even acquired especially with the amount of ECM available for clantech
MWO right now is centered around damage output, putting in a couple of minor quirks wont change that dynamic.

[Mechteric]

Enforcer X, on 11 September 2015 - 04:16 PM, said:

I seriously hope that you dont take away unique feats like the ones achieved with the current quirk system. eg: The HBK-GI with its rapid firing gauss (with it's big hunch that you can't hide and XL vulnerability) or the Huggin with its high although risky (you need to expose your CT to fire! and be on range) SRM dps rain of death.

But that is exactly why they must take away those feats, it ends up pushing those mechs to only using those weapons they are quirked for. It means if you don't take that Gauss on that GridIron, or SRM on that Huggin you are doing it wrong. That is not acceptable in a game that is all about customization.

It'd be like if I couldn't get my burger at McDonald's (or somewhere that actually has good burgers, just for arguments sake) without ketchup. I hate ketchup on burgers. I shouldn't get a crappier burger just because I don't want ketchup.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 11 September 2015 - 04:21 PM.

[Jalthibuster]

So, this "information warfare" is basically an ECM nerf...or more like making it almost obsolete. I just browsed through the quirks on the PTS and found so many mechs with target acquisition delays of 4 till up to 6.5 seconds so the enemy mech will be focus fired by organised groups before anyone ever even gets a lock on, not to speak of the extra time until getting paper doll infos.
I appreciate the attempt to increase TTK by removing weapon quirks and adding armor/structure ones (I think one of the King Crabs has an additional 175 points of bonus structure) but it stil won't negate players who are not cumshooting all over the mech and assist each other.

[quantaca]

Sthtopokeon, on 11 September 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

@ all the guys arguing that sensors are useless:


You think that sensors are somewhat useless now, but keep in mind that PGI can take active steps to make sensors become useful. They can lower visibility ranges, add fog, remove night vision and what else.

Just because it might seem useless now, doesn't mean it has to stay that way.

Well in part thats true they could make it meaningfull ... but people already complain about low visibility in general, heat and night vision are already limited and for some people just painfull to watch (i cant see anything on nightvision it just becomes a big green blob, i lose all depth) fog was removed from viridian bog because people complained, and even now they complain about the limited fog on forest colony.

[coe7]

quantaca, on 11 September 2015 - 04:22 PM, said:

Well in part thats true they could make it meaningfull ... but people already complain about low visibility in general, heat and night vision are already limited and for some people just painfull to watch (i cant see anything on nightvision it just becomes a big green blob, i lose all depth) fog was removed from viridian bog because people complained, and even now they complain about the limited fog on forest colony.

You can not balance visibility via fog or any other means. If its drawn on screen, you can always tweak your monitor options / GFX card driver presets to see what you want to see... here:

https://dl.dropboxus..._brightness.jpg

Here is a picture of river city night gameplay during darkest hour. Left side of cockpit is in standard screen, with calibrated gamma and color. What average player sees pretty much. On the right side you have Eizo monitor with highly tweaked MWO gamma/saturation/brightness setup of the same gameplay moment.

Edited by coe7, 11 September 2015 - 04:26 PM.

[Docta Pain]

ECM still kills info war. the dequirking just reverts to the previous meta. no real positive impacts that I see. ecm must change or steam launch will be a disaster. (not saying that there aren't other things but that this is a must).

[quantaca]

Monky, on 11 September 2015 - 04:08 PM, said:

You can't take the 'information' widget and swap it with the 'firepower' widget. Those are not comparable. Mobility and armor can both to an extent be compared to firepower because you can dodge or absorb fire.... information only allows you to have somewhat better knowledge to work with in a given situation.

Even those arent really 1 on 1 swappable, you only get to use that extra armor once, extra firepower you can keep on using and the extra armor isnt on a lvl that you can take an 4/5 cermed alpha at 500m and then close the distance before he can fire again and still be on a 1 on 1 basis armor wise and even if you were youd prob still lose because of the higher alpha (but then build and heat comes into play not to mention actuall pilot skill, so ... hard to accuratly predict )

[IraqiWalker]

Davers, on 11 September 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

Is this really IW though? It seems more like a huge LRM nerf more than anything else.

Do mechs that are naturally slow (like a Direwolf) automatically get bonuses in other areas? Do mechs that are slow, but can potentially become much quicker (such as an Urbanmech) get rated on the upgraded engine potential or the base?

In the end I wonder about how useful the balance is. Just like with the new MM- is standing next to a heavier mech a lot really useful enough to raise my score, I have to wonder what effect sensor changes will really have.

I don't think it's IW yet. I'm saying it could be a start.

Davers, on 11 September 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

After 3 years of waiting for "placeholders" to change I am really surprised you are making this argument. PGI has been much more known for long periods of no activity followed by huge swinging changes. Not small incremental balance tweaks. How long did it take PGI to make the suggested changes to mechlab from the PTS?

I completely agree, but this time seems a bit different. For instance, they are keeping the PTS on, there's an entire section dedicated to feedback for this. It seems that this might be different, and it will go in phases.

Davers, on 11 September 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

Does that mean a Locust will now have a large advantage over assault mechs? Does this mean the lightest mech in each category will be better than the heavier ones? If a 60 ton mech will have a "slight edge" over a 65 ton mech, what is the purpose of balancing CW and Group queue by tonnage limits?

Speaking theoretically, there is a point where all mechs within a weight class normalize so that the 40 tonner is on equal footing with the 55 tonner.

MechWarrior James, on 11 September 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

As a trueborn warrior and loyalist of Clan Smoke Jaguar, I am disheartened and frustrated by PGI's insistence on "game balance" between IS battlemechs and Clan omnimechs, as well as the constant nerfing of our omnimechs to achieve it.

I have supported this game financially over the past year through the purchase of individual omnimech chassis (via mech credits and a la carte), the Clan Wave 3 package, and Faction content items, but am deeply dissatisfied at seeing the omnimechs I have bought with real money not being allowed to operate at their full potential. Paul's above indication that there are more nerfs to come to bring the omnimechs down ever further below some wholly subjective 70% OP rate is troubling in the extreme, and leaves me questioning whether or not I should continue to support this game any further.

Let me be clear...I do not expect "god mechs," but I do expect omni technology to be utilized as it is in the lore, or else there is no real point in playing in a Clan faction if my weapons and support systems are going to be neutered in such a fashion. The heat spikes are maddening enough on chassis that were designed to carry multiple weapons of the same types. I love the look and feel of the game, but the nerfs have to stop if I am going to continue playing and supporting it financially.

Seyla.

No, you clearly want god mechs. Omni mechs in this game are stronger than the TT versions, and you're still calling them neutered, while declaring yourself a "trueborn" clan pilot, when you can't handle how the clan mechs operate. We've kept TT heat costs, while giving you a heat threshold of 68 on average.
you want all the advantages with none of the drawback (btw, omni tech in this game is very close to TT, and lore implementation)

Also, you clearly never paid attention, most clan mechs have no negative quirks on them. Save for some pods on the TBR, SCR, and the DWF, and even then, they are still great mechs. In fact, the three I listed are still considered tier 1 mechs. For the most part, the attempt has been done through buffing IS, and trying to restrict some of the clan dominance.

[Vaderman]

If Clan mechs were never meant to be superior to IS mechs then....

Why are they more expensive?

[Chef Kerensky]

Paul Inouye, on 11 September 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

scouting

Ha ha ha.

Paul Inouye, on 11 September 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

information warfare

Ha Ha Ha.