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Mech Rebalance And Pts


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#41 MischiefSC

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:27 PM

View PostFupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

Mist Lynx nerfs confirmed:

Posted Image



Good thing too. Ran into one in CW the other day. He actually did a little bit of damage before I 1-shotted him as he tried to run away.

Don't worry. I'm sure he'll get some sensor quirks that will totally make up for it and make him incredibly useful.

#42 coe7

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:28 PM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 11 September 2015 - 02:23 PM, said:

Considering I've been sifting through spreadsheets of their quirks, and what's going on, I actually have a better idea than you think, or probably do.

At the end, it's not my fault that you can't understand "this is a first draft, and things will get changed" or what a "first step" actually means. This could very well be a starting point for what eventually becomes information warfare. The difference here is that I'm looking at the long term, not short term.


So have I. And there is nothing that impresses me there. They are ruining fun core gameplay, by not understanding what makes their mech combat fun.

In history of gaming, things never changed much if at all since play test was put up. The core idea behind this change is fixed into their minds and there is nothing to change it anymore. This game would have been easy to balance for future, if they had

a) nerfed clan medium lasers
B) upgrade IS weaponary to match clan
c) increased HP of mechs with low slung arms to increase their ability to stay visible and contribute.

This imagenary information warfare is not there, will not be there and paperdolls have been useless for a long time. Like the poster above, its hard to explain to people who do not see this like I see it, how unimportant it is if you get or do not get targetting data.

Now we have a huge balance shifts made on paperdoll balance. Cries on information warfare. Light mechs with mobility neg quirks and IS mechs with massive HP sinks and no damage to back it up. I find this hilarious and very sad at the same time.

Edited by coe7, 11 September 2015 - 02:31 PM.


#43 Hal Greaves

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:28 PM

View Postaniviron, on 11 September 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:


words


I was being facetious.

#44 FupDup

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:31 PM

Okay, it turns out that my Mist Lynx didn't have any Omnipods equipped...if you put in pods, you get some positive quirks. However, having that many negative quirks hardbaked into the CT is still stupid beyond belief.

#45 Skarlock

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:31 PM

View Postcoe7, on 11 September 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:


It's not my problem if you do not understand that there is no such thing as information warfare as presented here. Targetting data is not usefull information. (shocknews?) You know by chassis and what it fires where to shoot if its XL or not, you will go for CT on everything else, gunarms on mechs that pose them, etc. Now with tier play, where majority of people can aim, there is no longer chances of major splash damage all over the mech. Mechs are called as they are seen, shot on target priority level.

So what if it takes now bit longer to take targeting data on a good mech? I get to see yellow CT bit later where I would place my alpha regardless while peaking around the corner?

You don't really have faintest idea how bad majority of mechs now are due this patch, and how overpowered are those few mechs that carry high alpha with 0 sensor boosts? You will always choose what ever brings most of damage, since by default, this game is about majority shooting at few targets, thats where you move your troops. Ergo. Damage wins. Now with this ****, many hulls gets its damage potential removed due imagenary information warfare.


In most fights, I never even get targeting data due to the overwhelming use of ECM. Honestly I'm fine with this, this ALONE does help in some cases extend ttk and make people live longer (this is what PGI wants, right?), but generally everyone I know aims for CT on what people expect to have standard or clan engines, ST on IS xl engine mechs, and legs on light mechs that tend to roll damage aimed at the upper body (cheetahs, firestarters, etc), side torsos on lights that do not roll upper body damage well (raven, etc). If I get targeting info, great, I'll use it, but I hardly ever expect to get it, especially when your fate can be sealed by hanging out too long, overly exposing yourself to the enemy trying to get a read out on them.

#46 Lorian Sunrider

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:32 PM

View PostFupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

Okay, it turns out that my Mist Lynx didn't have any Omnipods equipped...if you put in pods, you get some positive quirks. However, having that many negative quirks hardbaked into the CT is still stupid beyond belief.


Haha too busy posting that image everywhere you could to notice that eh? :P

#47 FupDup

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:33 PM

View PostLorian Sunrider, on 11 September 2015 - 02:32 PM, said:


Haha too busy posting that image everywhere you could to notice that eh? :P

The fact that there are any neg quirks on it is still an abomination.

#48 Lorian Sunrider

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:33 PM

View PostFupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

The fact that there are any neg quirks on it is still an abomination.


I don't disagree, but here I am trying to kill the last few minutes of work on the forum and I keep seeing your post everywhere so I have to give you a slightly hard time.

#49 IraqiWalker

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:34 PM

View Postcoe7, on 11 September 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:


So have I. And there is nothing that impresses me there. They are ruining fun core gameplay, by not understanding what makes their mech combat fun.

In history of gaming, things never changed much if at all since play test was put up. The core idea behind this change is fixed into their minds and there is nothing to change it anymore. This game would have been easy to balance for future, if they had

a) nerfed clan medium lasers
B) upgrade IS weaponary to match clan
c) increased HP of mechs with low slung arms to increase their ability to stay visible and contribute.

This imagenary information warfare is not there, will not be there and paperdolls have been useless for a long time. Like the poster above, its hard to explain to people who do not see this like I see it, how unimportant it is if you get or do not get targetting data.

Now we have a huge balance shifts made on paperdoll balance. Cries on information warfare. Light mechs with mobility neg quirks and IS mechs with massive HP sinks and no damage to back it up. I find this hilarious and very sad at the same time.

Cool, now how about you jump into the PTS, and actually collect some more data to fine tune your feedback, and help the rest of us out.

#50 Mogney

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:34 PM

I'll reserve strong ipinions for after more time has passed, but ifvthe fundamental assumption us that each of the four scoring factors are of equal value, then i can already see the problem with this approach

#51 FupDup

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:35 PM

View PostLorian Sunrider, on 11 September 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

I don't disagree, but here I am trying to kill the last few minutes of work on the forum and I keep seeing your post everywhere so I have to give you a slightly hard time.

If by "everywhere" you mean in two threads. :P

#52 IraqiWalker

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:36 PM

View PostDr Tachyon, on 11 September 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

I'll reserve strong ipinions for after more time has passed, but ifvthe fundamental assumption us that each of the four scoring factors are of equal value, then i can already see the problem with this approach

They would have to break some things on a fundamental level, if they are to make all 4 equal.

View PostFupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 02:35 PM, said:

If by "everywhere" you mean in two threads. :P

He's been on 2 threads, so on 2 of 2 threads, he saw the post. Statistically, that's 100%. So.... everywhere?

#53 aniviron

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:37 PM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 11 September 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

They would have to break some things on a fundamental level, if they are to make all 4 equal.


He's been on 2 threads, so on 2 of 2 threads, he saw the post. Statistically, that's 100%. So.... everywhere?


Probably helps that a lot of people are quoting that post because none of us can believe that this happened. It's like Bizarro World is invading through the PTS.

#54 FupDup

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:42 PM

Something I've noticed is that every single Clan CT has negative quirks, and then almost every Omnipod has positive and/or negative quirks to try to cancel them out. I'm still dorking around with combinations.

#55 Hal Greaves

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:43 PM

View PostFupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 02:42 PM, said:

Something I've noticed is that every single Clan CT has negative quirks, and then almost every Omnipod has positive and/or negative quirks to try to cancel them out. I'm still dorking around with combinations.


You know, that actually sounds kinda neat, actually.

#56 Gut

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:44 PM

In before:

"I'm a information based mech, I didn't have to shoot him to help the team"

W.T.H.

Edit, my reply on reddit (where the feedback actually matters more than here)

As people have pointed out, unless information role in the Sim actually changes drastically, the information part of these balances will be ignored by people who know what they're doing already.


It's a decent way to balance mechs against each other, other than the info part.




https://www.reddit.c...ts_paul/cuyf9py

Edited by Gut, 11 September 2015 - 02:45 PM.


#57 Felicitatem Parco

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:45 PM

View PostFupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 02:42 PM, said:

Something I've noticed is that every single Clan CT has negative quirks, and then almost every Omnipod has positive and/or negative quirks to try to cancel them out. I'm still dorking around with combinations.


So, while you run calculations, will you edit your Sky Is Falling posts to remove the premature content?

#58 FupDup

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:47 PM

View PostProsperity Park, on 11 September 2015 - 02:45 PM, said:

So, while you run calculations, will you edit your Sky Is Falling posts to remove the premature content?

No, because some of those mechs never needed negative quirks to begin with, it's pretty redundant.

#59 IraqiWalker

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:48 PM

View PostGut, on 11 September 2015 - 02:44 PM, said:

In before:

"I'm a information based mech, I didn't have to shoot him to help the team"

W.T.H.

Edit, my reply on reddit (where the feedback actually matters more than here)

As people have pointed out, unless information role in the Sim actually changes drastically, the information part of these balances will be ignored by people who know what they're doing already.

It's a decent way to balance mechs against each other, other than the info part.



https://www.reddit.c...ts_paul/cuyf9py

You do know they just made an ENTIRE forum, with it's own subforums per chassis, per weight class, for feedback, right? PGI seems very gung ho about our feedback, even on the forums. I've ran into more staff today on the forums, than I did in the last 3 weeks combined.

#60 PraetorGix

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 02:50 PM

View PostFupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 01:54 PM, said:

What stuck out to me the most:



So if I'm reading this correctly, do you intend for the higher-tonnage mech to have a higher PowerLevel than the lower-tonnage mech (i.e. 45 ton mech superior to 40 ton mech)?


Quite the opposite in fact. Read again and you can see he's talking about giving slight advantages to the lighter chassis. Also, a bit of common sense would point that this is about a global balance. Making heavier mechs more powerful is, well, not balanced.





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