772 replies to this topic

[Joe Mallad]

So weapon quirks will be going away? What about modules to boost weapons? If this is the case, we will be getting all that GXP, XP and C-bills we used to buy/unlock all this stuff right?

[Jaberwocky]

I liked the flavour and uniqueness of the quirk system for sure. That speedy PPC Cicada was fun! Huggin SRM4's ? Excellent fun! Many mechs I may have sold, but for some interesting weapons quirk to mess around with. I typically end up keeping 2 mechs per chassis based on favourite builds/quirks/c-bill bonuses/hardpoints.

As for "every mech has a unique role and force people to play them", I don't mind a general role, but pigeonholing creative or non-standard loadouts seems harsh. I like all the build tweaking/adjusting in MWO and I like spending a lot of time in the mech lab messing around with variety, usually building mechs to sneak up and assassinate lrmaggeddon boats. Perhaps a "Stock Mech Only" cue might be good for those looking for more traditional/simulation type activities? Within that reality, balance would possibly be easier to achieve, otherwise min/maxing will usually create a situation where certain mechs are used, and others not as much.

I know you're getting rid of the quirk system, but don't feel too bad about creating it. It was excellent fun and variety for some of us

Edited by Jaberwocky, 13 September 2015 - 07:48 AM.

[Haji1096]

There is only one role that currenly exists: killing other mechs. Mech's can only have unique roles if the game modes and maps support those roles. Information warfare might actually matter
if there was more dynamism to moving around the map, objectives that didn't center around killing the enemy team. Instead of just giving mech's info war quirks, tell me why I need to have them. How do they help me ? What can I accomplish with them ?

It feels like whoever picked the quirks for the PTS doesn't even play the game. Exposing your mech for any other reason than apply damage is suicidal because of all the firepower out there. Over weighing information warfare quirks is another version of the current quirk system except the design team is picking chassis losers instead of winners.


I don't have a good solution for how the game should be re-balanced.

[Idealsuspect]

the qwirks xD
THE QWIRKS

This game can't be balanced with sensor quirks... an awesome will always be a big hitbox attracting all pew pew and dakka around.
Like the jenner or raven will always look like his a big torso moving all around the map when the FS, spider even commando are harder to shoot from side.

Edited by Idealsuspect, 13 September 2015 - 07:54 AM.

[Auton]

What I think they should really put into the game is Stock Mech Toggle so that you have to play the Stock version of the mech. That would stop the "Meta" discussion because you can not change your weapons or armor. So even the clans be stuck with the Stock of their mechs and stop them from boating weapons and maximizing the armor. Also this should be put into CW and Tournaments because it would be more interesting and I would hope more fun. Right now in CW I see almost 100% of the time Hellbringers, Ebon Jaguars, Stormcrows, Timber Wolves and Artic Cheetahs. Sometimes a few Dire Wolves show up but really it is the same mechs and same builds. Make it so those Timber Wolves have to run 2 ERLL, 2 ERML, 1 MPL, 2MG and 2 LRM20 (still a crazy amount of firepower).

Also I know people will think this is P2W but Hero mechs should keep their weapon quirks since they were made to be the "Special" version of the mech. The Grid Iron without the Gauss is just the same as another Hunchback. It would be making the Hero mechs not worth anything since most heroes have the same hardpoints as other versions of that mech.

[Joe Mallad]

As I've mentioned on Twitter... If mech quirks are going to be taken away. I want all my XP, GXP and c-bills I spent to get modules to go with those quirks to make them better.

But if mech weapon quirks are going away, we still need a way to help make our mechs feel unique in its weapon load outs. And I still think we should bring in weapon manufactures to the univers. In the Books and fluff we have numerous manufactures that all made the same weapons.

I'll use the AC-20 as an example. Give us multiple manufactures in the game that make them but make them all slightly different. One might have a slightly better range, one gives off less heat, one has a slightly better fire rate and so on. Give us reason to fight for planets to gain theses weapons at a discounted rate if that planet is part of that house or clan territory. If we are mercs and working for a house, we can buy from those manufactures and get those particular variants of a weapon at a discounted rate.

And give us a dynamic salvage system where if I kill a mech that has a weapon variant on it that I don't have, I might find one in a special salvage drop for the kill. It won't take it away from the killed player but I could potentially gain one of what he had from the kill.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 13 September 2015 - 08:22 AM.

[Shaio]

The new Structure Buffs are interesting but if the weapon crit health is not increased this game is going to be full of ZomBi Botz. AAAaaa... BRAINNZZzzzz...

[storm0545]

cant wait to see how terrible this gets if they intend to keep ghost heat as well...

[Surn]

In this game, the team with more ecm that balls up wins. This info tech seems to fundamentally favor the clans by increasing their major ecm advantage. If you don't understand this, go counter attack emerald taiga as an is player.

Edited by MechregSurn, 13 September 2015 - 10:08 AM.

[Tali van zora]

way you cant make it in tis game 2
you dont need balance

[Surn]

Tali van zora, on 13 September 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

way you cant make it in tis game 2
you dont need balance

Designers like to come up with new things

[cSand]

hercules1981, on 13 September 2015 - 05:38 AM, said:

I'm just gonna add this statement again and probably say it again in a few more days just so there is a better chance of people reading it on the newest page if they r not scimming the whole subject. Incorporate a 9 vs 12 system so IS will have superior numbers and then clan mechs can be better like there r supposed to be . Screw this going through another poorly thought of balance scheme. There can be a clan vs clan 12 vs 12 or an IS vs IS 12 vs 12. Clan vs IS 9vs 12.

they already said this will never happen

thank god.

[Wolf Bronskiy]

hercules1981, on 13 September 2015 - 05:38 AM, said:

There can be a clan vs clan 12 vs 12 or an IS vs IS 12 vs 12. Clan vs IS 9vs 12.

If i'm not mistaken - It was 10 vs 12.

[IraqiWalker]

Koshirou, on 13 September 2015 - 01:57 AM, said:

Would you switch to the Inner Sphere - permanently, as a loyalist player - under the conditions you propose?

None of the ones that make this suggestion are willing to do it.

Nightshade24, on 13 September 2015 - 03:58 AM, said:

you say that but all clans put together is just the same territory as Davion at the momment.
"not talking about critical mass, just talking about how it keeps growing!"

Clan ghost bear would like to have a word with you, Clan smoke jaguars progress is haulting and Clan wolf is shrinking steadily but still holding to terra just to rub it in everyones face that clan wolf technically won the 2nd CW 'universe'.
Only falcon is doing well and I must say other IS factions are also doing well as well

But Wolf never got Terra in CW. MS did. Soon as MS left Wolf's progress halted. Ghost Bear has about 8 active players, and CSJ has about 2 12 mans active.

Saying that all the clans combined have a territory rivaling Davion's is not a point you should be using, because the clans started out with only 8 planets or so. The fact that they grew to the size of the largest IS territory is an argument AGAINST the point you're trying to make here.

[Alfonso McQuirko]

"Clan technology is and commonly known to be over-powered using BattleTech rules. This is not what we wanted in MechWarrior Online."

Is the central idea of the Clan invation and why were a fearfull, formidable foe. The reason for the born of second start league. They are overpowered and the houses left their differences behind and start to figth unite.

Why not, deploy as the clans should do? That doesnt balance the game enough?


I love play vs overpowered clanners. It force to play wiht a lot tactic and dont just win by "brutal force".

Wolf Bronskiy, on 13 September 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

If i'm not mistaken - It was 10 vs 12.

its what it said, leave the mech as is, and deploy as clans... TRY IT PGI!

[Mordric]

they should change all weapons, modules, and sensor to a percentage base line. then adjust it base one the Mech teir, tech level and such.

[MechaBattler]

I reread Paul's post. The balance changes are supposed to help balance a mech within it's own weight class and put them in "roles". Roles which they've not really defined to us, the testers. It'd be nice if we understood what those roles were and what was expected to be achieved. So that we could try to fill that role and provide some feedback on if the quirks are achieving their intent. We, the playerbase, have our own ideas of what roles mech fills. It's hard to see an Atlas as a scout, unless you're a Lyran lapdog.

I think we need a little transparency on intention of these quirks. It would also calm a lot of people to know whether weapon quirks are gone completely or being reserved for a future pass.

If they've already answered this somewhere. I apologize and ask for a link. But I'm not talking about a vague "He said they would work on weapons" which could mean weapon balance, not weapon quirks.

Edited by MechaBattler, 13 September 2015 - 01:31 PM.

[Syn Pryde]

regarding buffs n balance:

first: a lot of discussion can be spared if we use the default faction unit sizes:
10 clanners in a binary of 2 stars
12 IS in a company of 3 lances
20% immediate firepower buff on IS mechs, no buffing system needed. also: its according to lore.
gives the "dirty freeborns" an additional 2 players on the map that are not man-checked and free to mess with clan team mind balance.
include batchall rules for organized clan teams to vow down weight and increase gain - more likely to result in self-strangulation by batchall then any remote-strangulation by buff nerfs. everything else is basically pointless.
oh, and please make turrets and gates in CW worth shooting at in terms of rewards. right now they just waste net damage in PUG matches that people deploy else where - CW part becomes meaningless to them, which is number one reason why we have less fun playing against an enemy of 12 individuals all aiming for max cash over win. one reason we have a super-easy run through up to new vandenberg in taurian territory this year.

second: adding internal structure to a light is a joke.
if you get hit by an AC20, tough luck bro, your down. wether a jenner, locust or anything in between, the AC20 gonna hurt.
you`re in a scout - survey your environment, pick the weak. if you have to mess with a big machine and your stupid enough to go in from the strong side (anything where guns can reach) - well... here`s your coffin, deal with it.
get a heavier mech if you dont like that.

third: infowarfare, sensor speeds - WTH, why should i care ? no one of the organized players brings a LRM boat to CW these days. the direct fire people wont care for targeting time: if your sniping, fine, all time of the world. you got the info when you place the shot. if your peek-n-poke-in, you dont have time to look. max alpha any one zone, get out.
sooner or later someones gonna fall over. changed buffs ? adjust loadout meta a bit. who cares.
adjusted non-visual targeting ? it is a nice add on right now, so why rely on it ?
number of module slots: i dont see a reason why an atlas should work as a "info scout" from behind, also there is no reason why a locust or jenner should loose slots. there is not much advantage they gain by it anyway.

fourth: debuffing the clan lights...
i will be a very happy clanner the day we get our first useful (as in combat profile) light, the jenner IIC.
kitfox and uller play like underweight mediums (they are...), arctic cheater and mist lynx have horrible hardpoints because of the design and locked joint arms. you cant extend them at sholder level.
take a good long look at the way the really high damage light mech pilots play their mech and you`ll understand why no clan light mech currently is at the level of the IS mechs - they prefer high speed, high weapon mountpoint - raven, jenner, locust, you name it. we have arctic cheetah with 2 high placements, uller with one - right now. we cant upgrade engines. IS can. no matter what, our fastest light goes 131 kph. with roughly the same armour as the IS lights going 150+ easily. 131 is the speed a fully leveled 295XL 45ton blackjack BJ-1X will reach. carrying 8 medium or 6 medium pulse lasers (or slower with 4 large lasers). nothing of our lights can carry that much sustainable firepower at that speed. same jenner. Ice Ferret comes close, but still looses damage wise.
we got a lot to choose from clan lore wise - slow high mount ones, blazingly fast ones, even fast with high mounts...
horned owl/peregrine, incubus/vixen, locust IIC, fire owl, howler/baboon, mandrill - hell, even the fire moth, the 12mg piranha or 15t roadrunner/emerald harrier. where is the fire moth ? piranha ? roadrunner ? on clan side they would fill a direly open position, until whenever we can finally adjust engines on our omnis (which would tip power ultimately to clans).

clan even brought old IS machines (SLDF) with them... yet we are stuck with some of the rather worst hardpoint and speed challenged lights in the game... like piloting only commandos, urbies and friends in stock layout....
even pouncer, hellhound/conjourer, vapour eagle/goshawk as mediums with partially high mounts could make life more fun on the clan speedy side of the game. we could gain a lot by getting OK`d to finally deploy our second line or pre-kerensky material.

once clan gets 10 mans and batchall, we will be evenly matched. but torn apart by their lights. from behind cover.

[Poundcake]

Quote

It is only after all of this happens that we look at the final balance gap between IS and Clan technology.

Roll back the quirks that made IS competitive, and let those players languish for months or years as Clan fodder until you get around to evening the field.

Good plan.

[IraqiWalker]

Poundcake, on 13 September 2015 - 02:37 PM, said:

Roll back the quirks that made IS competitive, and let those players languish for months or years as Clan fodder until you get around to evening the field.

Good plan.

Where exactly did they say they were going to implement the system without balancing clan vs IS? What you quoted merely suggests that first they want to work on one part, then the next. Nowhere does it say that once they are done with part 1 they will throw it into the live server, when it's incomplete.