3 replies to this topic

[Hellzero]

I am saying all this from the point of view of the "non-meta Beta player of the Victor", that stopped playing with it after the nerfs & tried to get back to it after the nerfs were lifted(but to no avail).

The Victor essentially fell out of favor & from its "frightening Medium Style behavior & immensely powerful tools/weapons" after the Clans hit us, and the first Jump Jet re-haul was done.
- What hurt it the most though, was the Jump Jet re-haul. You used to be able to jump over Atlases with 4-6 JJs, and with the speed that it had... you could unleash a full barrage on the rear armour if you did this at the right spot.

You needed to "pick your fights" though, and the JJs allowed this kind of behavior. What truly hurt the Vicky to fall from "The Meta Mech" was not its weaponry or speed essentially, but the introduction of the poorly performing JJs. This was the ultimate asset of the Victor.

In my opinion, the quirks & the boost to Victor's internals are a major improvement over to what it was previously. I would go as far as putting it also on the 9K model, with the disadvantages of the "Acceleration & Deceleration".
- I think this was the best step forward with the Victor, however... what it lacks, is what the Timberwolf has= 'nigh the same armour, relatively faster than any Victor(as it should be), better & more useful JJs available for the chassis.

What does the Victor gain over say... Orion? Vulnerable arms, but JJs that don't quite lift you high up. Orion used to have more/same potential armour thanks to the introduced Armour Quirks.
- Don't let me get started on the Zeus with this.
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All in all... The Clans & the decrease of the JJ potential, regardless essentially if you have 2 or 4 JJs, or even 6 on the 9K, the height is relatively the same. This hurt the Victor's "lore". It's in the Tabletop normally "not a frightening mech", it looks like an awful version of Hunchback 4G, a joke, that has more armour, essentially.
- What does the Victor though do when it gets in to a cityfight or a close range brawl? It jumps.. and flies behind an enemy mech that you "get close to", from cover or in front of the enemy; hit it & then head for cover/gun it down. And always: "Tearing apart the rear armour/destroying it on the spot with an Alpha shot"

This... is essentially what the mech was about originally when introduced in MWO. This is what it cannot do anymore, and you don't see too many Victors these days. It wasn't the speed that was frightening in Vicky, it was the JJs and the ability to "Pick your Fights" on your terms.

- What do I propose as a solution to this problem?

If at all possible... if re-tooling the JJs is too much of a work, as I think it will be(like giving it the same class JJs as the Highlander, or improving the present JJs), give it something VIA quirks to boost its JJs... for I love the boost to its internal health. It isn't anymore Gauss/UAC shotted to death from a single salvo, even if its "Right Hook" is relatively vulnerable still.

- Warhawks happened, Dire Wolves happened, 12 player teams happened.. the whole game has changed essentially. Vicky... she was left behind after the JJ adjustment, even if at the time it was a good call.

Please, give some love to the old girl... Picture related, of my favorite Battlemech for over 20 years: https://goo.gl/9iMsqn

Yours Truly, one of the only pilots who loves the Trenchbucket & Vicky, the true underdogs of Battletech(in my opinion).
- Hellzero

Edited by Hellzero, 11 September 2015 - 05:29 PM.

[Hellzero]

I'll also add, that the "Extra Maneuverability" VIA Torso Twist speed is also more than welcome, it allows to dodge those pesky "4LL shots on the spot" by spreading the damage better than ever. It's a good compensation for the Acceleration/Deceleration.
- So indeed, there has been done some good things!

Victor has never been meant to be played though like "Face tanking the enemy", hence this enhances its "effectiveness", all around.
- Victor doesn't on the tabletop stand against 'nigh any other Assault mech head-on. So... any added agility means getting the 110% out of its "5 points better armour on Side Torsos VS the next 75 ton Heavy Mechs".

If I ever would put any armour quirks on the Victor... it would be the Right Arm. Never-ever anywhere else. That right hook is its lifeline, and in my opinion, the internal health boost alone was good enough. It needs a boost to its JJs.
- I don't want poptarting to re-appear though, but... like I said, if it would be "Victor Specific", I still don't think it would stand with the Arctic Cheetahs even by that alone.

Edited by Hellzero, 11 September 2015 - 06:18 PM.

[Hellzero]

As a last note of proposition: Victor originally used to be more agile when hitting the JJs, than not hitting the JJs. Hence it could turn on a dime in a dogfight.
- As a manner of speaking... getting the same level of agility, could breath new life to the mech. But in my opinion, it should have the very least "Minimum requirement of 3-4 JJs" in order to gain the "any level of boost"(pain in the neck to make I believe though).

I don't think I could ever otherwise call it even remotely fair(to have less than 3-4JJs). But then again, playing with the Victor these days... isn't quite fair. Gargoyle, Zeus, Awesome, almost all Clan Assaults... with the loadout options and the speed available to Vicky, it just isn't that diverse/powerful to make it 1:1. Even some Mediums can ruin its day with outperforming it in most fields.

- The JJ Agility was, and always has been, its biggest asset with the general agility of the Torso Twisting. This has been in the Tabletop and in MWO. In my opinion, it is the best option to make it non-obsolete, bring back how agile it truly was; just to consider on. AC20/similar quirks would not be necessary. The good set of Mech/Weapon module slots right now included can compensate this well.

- It needs to stand up against the 75 tonners & not run away in shame. Not to mention some 50 tonners out there as well.

The Synergy of the game has become more "hardlined" for all mechs, you did a good job of getting most IS mechs on-board after the Clan release.
- Victor was the only one that stayed underneath the "Iron Hammer". I agree with Paul's comment back in the day that "This was not what we had intended with the Victor", as it could behave like a fast Medium.
- But... after the Clans hit us... the borderline changed, battlefield changed. Maps changed & so did mech speeds. +80km/h isn't spectacular these days anymore.

- Make the Victor a mech of hard skill; not overwhelming firepower or durability. But finesse & precision. That's what the machine is all about, at heart.

Edited by Hellzero, 12 September 2015 - 08:36 AM.

[Chados]

I second Hellzero's thoughts. The Victor is the Jester of assault mechs-fast, agile, can handle a heavy in a stand up fight. It ought to get its jet mastery back, and then it will be more competitive with Clan 70 tonners and below. It is *the* IS scout and harassment assault 'mech, the 80-tonner you'd trust to bring firepower to back a lance of Ravens on the prowl.

I'd love to see 10 ballistic crits on the Dragon Slayer for the AC20. Given the Victor's limited hardpoints, that firepower is not optional and gauss rifle charging mechanics make that too problematic for anyone but the most twitchy to run. The 9S and SC are unquestionably the preeminent Victors now, and the 9B can be turned into one just like it.