29 replies to this topic

[Elizander]

We don't have to go to a set number like half though. I doubt anything like this will be implemented but I think a better iteration of the idea would be to have both types of weapons (IS/Clan) have the same maximum range while having different ideal ranges. You can even add a third type of range (really short range) to add more balance sorta.

• IS Medium Laser - Range 270m, Max Range 540m
  
• Clan ER Medium Laser - Range 405m, Max Range 810m

This can be change to something like:

• IS Medium Laser - Range 270m, Max Range 540m
  
• Clan ER Medium Laser - Range 405m, Max Range 540m

A modification of this can be done to increase the IS range a little while shrinking the Clan range a little to meet halfway:

• IS Medium Laser - Range 270m, Max Range 600m
  
• Clan ER Medium Laser - Range 405m, Max Range 600m

This benefits Clan lasers more still, so we can add a third range for IS to balance it out (arbitrarily):

• IS Medium Laser - Short Range (Deals 8.00 to 6.01 damage) 0m - 90m, Medium Range 91m - 270m (6 damage), Max Range 600m
  
• Clan ER Medium Laser - Range 405m, Max Range 600m

Balanced? Not perfectly, but not as bad as what we have now.

Edit:

This is just dealing with range. We can drop the extra short range burst for IS ML if we count the fact that it has lower heat enough of a balancing factor compared to CERML range.

Edited by Elizander, 13 September 2015 - 11:06 AM.

[Livewyr]

Elizander, on 13 September 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

We don't have to go to a set number like half though. I doubt anything like this will be implemented but I think a better iteration of the idea would be to have both types of weapons (IS/Clan) have the same maximum range while having different ideal ranges. You can even add a third type of range (really short range) to add more balance sorta.

• IS Medium Laser - Range 270m, Max Range 540m
  
• Clan ER Medium Laser - Range 405m, Max Range 810m

This can be change to something like:

• IS Medium Laser - Range 270m, Max Range 540m
  
• Clan ER Medium Laser - Range 405m, Max Range 540m

A modification of this can be done to increase the IS range a little while shrinking the Clan range a little to meet halfway:

• IS Medium Laser - Range 270m, Max Range 600m
  
• Clan ER Medium Laser - Range 405m, Max Range 600m

This benefits Clan lasers more still, so we can add a third range for IS to balance it out (arbitrarily):

• IS Medium Laser - Short Range (Deals 8.00 to 6.01 damage) 0m - 90m, Medium Range 91m - 270m (6 damage), Max Range 600m
  
• Clan ER Medium Laser - Range 405m, Max Range 600m

Balanced? Not perfectly, but not as bad as what we have now.


Edit:

This is just dealing with range. We can drop the extra short range burst for IS ML if we count the fact that it has lower heat enough of a balancing factor compared to CERML range.

Interesting idea, but I see three issues.
Clans pay for their range with Heat.
Clans pay for their advanced weapons with the inability to adjust anything related to podspace or speed.
I want to refrain from having the weapons being clones. (Having them both have a max range of 540, or 600 would diminish the difference too much IMO.)

[Sable]

I would support the range reduction past optimal range but i disagree with the rest of the balance suggestions. Most mechs have mixed builds stock for a reason and i would like to see all around mechs with weapons for different ranges become more appealing than the 1 boated weapon type on everything all the time.

Edited by Sable, 13 September 2015 - 12:22 PM.

[TLBFestus]

I like the idea of a shorter range on the clan weapons, they seem ridiculously long at this point.

I'd also like to see, assuming they don't touch armor at all, that weapon damage across the board was reduced by 30-50% to increase TTK. I suppose that there would have to be a hard look taken at relative armor values from chasis to chasis though.

FupDup, on 13 September 2015 - 09:05 AM, said:

A 50cal gun isn't going to require even remotely as much tonnage as the Battletech Machine Gun does.

Wikipedia indicates to me that the M2 Browning weighs a total of 58 kilograms with its full tripod and T&E. The Battletech Machine Gun weighs 500 kilograms, which is almost 9 times as heavy! Expecting those two weapons to have the same lethality is ridiculous, especially in the very distant future in space.


...Or we could forget shitass definitions of "realism" entirely and just go for fun/balance in a space robot video game.

Aren't you just picking and choosing which things have to be treated "realistically" or not.? You have an issue with a space machine gun with respect to a M2 browning, but you accept 1 ton computers, longe range missles that travel only 1000 meters, and lasers with even less range?

So....yes...don't get too involved in "realism" in a stompy future robot game.

Edited by TLBFestus, 13 September 2015 - 12:46 PM.

[Ace Selin]

Give clan Erppcs their 15 - NO
Cut the over range of clan lasers to 50% and give their burn times comparability to IS lasers. - LOL NO, this is a med range buff where a lot of fighting is done.

Mcgral18, on 13 September 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

I support the halved Extended Range, but I'd start with just that. No damage or duration buffs.

Tweak few things at a time.


My full list of recommendations:

[/list]I also feel MGs shouldn't be nerfed further, they should be buffed on damage, back to 1 DPS, and the CoF removed for the isMG.

Details inside that thread, click the arrow to see them.


Can't support that ERPPC buff.

Im finding i agree with this guy more & more.

[MischiefSC]

Except Clans are faster in general and as such can control range.

[nehebkau]

You would figure that a "battle value" for weapon systems would be something that wouldn't be that hard to make and, as such, would be a useful tool to balance out weapons.

[Erkki]

Livewyr, on 13 September 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

Interesting idea, but I see three issues.
Clans pay for their range with Heat.
Clans pay for their advanced weapons with the inability to adjust anything related to podspace or speed.
I want to refrain from having the weapons being clones. (Having them both have a max range of 540, or 600 would diminish the difference too much IMO.)

In case you havent noticed, 7 damage > 5 damage and the cERML already does more damage per unit of burn time than ISML. So much about shorter burn and range somehow being advantages. More heat but hey, doesnt stop anyone from boating them; the range and damage are well worth the extra heat.

Clan mechs cant change their speed? Too bad. They can modify their hardpoints and decide what weapons to boat (except for my Summoner and Myst Lynx).

Edited by Erkki, 13 September 2015 - 09:57 PM.

[Funkin Disher]

IS weapons get 50% over-range (half what they do now, except for missiles which actually obtain it)
Clan weapons get 10-25% over-range.

Hows that sound?

Edit: Extra weapon ideas, because why not:

- Clan SRMs fire in pairs with a tiny interval like clan LRMs and ACs. All SRMs also fly faster with the old, magnificent twirling pattern.
- Gauss / PPCs have a charge time that dictates velocity, and can be fired at any point during the charge. CERPPCs damage changes to 12 with 1.5 splash
- MG 1 DPS, Flamer 1 DPS + 1 HPS
- LRMs obtain lock faster, fly faster and flatter, are clustered tighter and not lose lock once launched but cannot obtain lock without sight, TAG or NARC. Firing without line of sight heightens the firing arc, slows the flight speed and loosens clustering similar to what we have now.

Misc Ideas:
Standard structure gains structure quirk over Endo
Standard armor gains armor or damage protection quirk over Ferro
Standard engine gains CT structure quirk over XL
Double heat sinks enjoy higher dissipation rate but do not add to heat threshold
ECM negates/minimizes benefits of BAP, TAG and Artermis rather than vice versa, and does not prevent locks.

Edited by Funkin Disher, 13 September 2015 - 10:18 PM.

[Omi_]

Diminishing clan maximum range beyond optimal range is GREAT idea. Gj.