27 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

EmperorMyrf, on 13 September 2015 - 07:38 PM, said:

OP I don't think limiting customizations in the mechlab is going to achieve what you (and I) want, it's only going to limit the number of chassis' that can support minmaxed builds. would you be OK with the existence of boomjagers and direstars etc if they weren't able to alpha everything into one spot? I think all that is necessary for the game is a hard limitation on how much damage can leave your mech at a given point in time brought upon by some new mechanic (there have been multiple suggestions on how to do this over the years)

This is right also. Once an alpha limit is achieved mechs could be built with some versatility in mind like the stock builds. This is obviously what the original board game had in mind.

In fact thinking it through this is something that just has to be added.

Edited by Johnny Z, 13 September 2015 - 07:44 PM.

[Hex Pallett]

EmperorMyrf, on 13 September 2015 - 07:38 PM, said:

OP I don't think limiting customizations in the mechlab is going to achieve what you (and I) want, it's only going to limit the number of chassis' that can support minmaxed builds. would you be OK with the existence of boomjagers and direstars etc if they weren't able to alpha everything into one spot? I think all that is necessary for the game is a hard limitation on how much damage can leave your mech at a given point in time brought upon by some new mechanic (there have been multiple suggestions on how to do this over the years)

And you will get a whole lot of same kind of mech dealing the same damage.

If that's not gonna ******* ruin the game forever, I dunno what will.

[Johnny Z]

Helmstif, on 13 September 2015 - 07:47 PM, said:

And you will get a whole lot of same kind of mech dealing the same damage.

If that's not gonna ******* ruin the game forever, I dunno what will.

Why not have an alpha limit per chassis and then have chassis with less alpha limit balanced with mobility, sensors, durability. Once a Timberwolf has its main alpha set with what ever the player wants, he can think about adding weapons or equipment(TAG, Jumpjets, LRM's etc.) for a different range or situation.

Edited by Johnny Z, 13 September 2015 - 07:53 PM.

[Davers]

Johnny Z, on 13 September 2015 - 07:40 PM, said:

This is right also. Once an alpha limit is achieved mechs could be built with some versatility in mind like the stock builds. This is obviously what the original board game had in mind.

In fact thinking it through this is something that just has to be added.

No, a Boomjager , or something with complimentary weapons (like a mech that can chainfire LPL and ML with similar firing characteristics) will be better than stock builds that have 1 ERLL, 2 machineguns, 1 SPL, and 2 LRM 15s.

[Zordicron]

The only adjustment needed for customization imbalances is a proper low heat cap/dissipation change.

It wont matter if you can mount 6 PPC's or ERLL on a mech if pushing alpha strike makes you explode instantly. This game needs some Mechwarrior 3 heatscale treatment. Not sure what I mean? Ask someone that has played it what happens when you alphastrike the clan Supernova prime loadout.


DPS<---------------->Boom! Headshot

We are near the right end of the scale, if not pegged out(given this is supposed to me a freegin mechwarrior game!) we need to move a lot farther to the left. Heatscale does it, WITH NO OTHER CHANGES AT ALL.

I am looking at this Info warfare stuff as a a stepping stone to weight class role warfare. i am not sure if Paul is, but i hope to sway his process on that.

http://mwomercs.com/...ul-please-read/



Now, IMO, alphastrikes and weapon balance needs a heatscale change. chassis to chassis balance and variant balance within chassis is a seperate, but equally important issue to deal with. I would LOVE for them to cut the heat scale in half and double dissipation AS PART OF this PTS pass, so we could work on both at the same time.

[Rebas Kradd]

Helmstif, on 13 September 2015 - 02:52 PM, said:

Not a valid argument. Splatcat, hexa-PPC Stalkers, you're saying those ain't builds that ppl paid good money for? Plus, if PGI remove the current quirks, should they give me a refund for my not-autoshotgun Centurion 9D or not-assaultgun Hunchback 4G that I no longer want?

The difference is that you can still play a Splatcat. It just might not be as effective. Your suggestion involves making it an invalid loadout and unplayable.

I fully acknowledge that it creates problems with balance, but removing 80% of people's mech stables isn't the answer.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 14 September 2015 - 09:49 AM.

[Xavier]

Helmstif, on 13 September 2015 - 01:43 PM, said:

You're circumventing the issue here. I never said "remove customization", I said "limit it to a certain degree to minimize min-maxing" so we wouldn't have thinks like Jagerbomb or Direstar. Yeah you can argue those are goof builds, but NOT to those on the receiving end. No competitive shooter has ever allowed that kind of thing to happen.

For one MWO is not a competitive shooter its a simulation.....so please keep that straight

NoobTube in Halo 3
Laptop gun in Perfect Dark
Alien Blaster in Fallout 3
Cerebral Bore in Turok 2
The Pistol in Halo Combat Evolved
Farsight in Perfect Dark
Hammer in Super Smash Bros
AWP Sniper Rifle in CounterStrike
BFG 9000 in Doom

These are all documented overpowered weapons in many different games many of which have been played competitively for a long time. Please realize that this problem is in all games everywhere and what you are suggesting is not the fix. What we really need to address selection of role warfare through the mech tree like the image I have linked below.


for a larger image please click this link

https://pbs.twimg.co...AV-Zb.png:large

Edited by Xavier, 14 September 2015 - 11:14 AM.

[Wibbledtodeath]

MWO full customisation is the source of all the fun.

There will always be a META, always be something that works better than another- balance is good to prevent major outliers- but full balance, everything equal would turn the game vanilla and boring. Besides, power creep from new Mech variants being introduced was the first indication of the current "problems" (really though, in the scheme of things it isn't that bad) and that was not player created.

And as much as "cheese" builds may *&%$ some ppl off- for me (and I assume many others) the flexibility to make your own builds is the really fun part of this game- it is already more restricted than I would like frankly (Boo to ghost heat). People complain now about quirks "forcing" their hand- but at least most people can play their old fav build- even if it is not as competitive as it may once have been. I can still go back to my old catapult and have a fun game- even if it isn't the full meta. Take that away with more build restrictions and I would be a very unhappy Mechduck. If I wanted linear (still not balanced) loadouts I could be playing Living legends/Hawken/Titanfall/World of Tanks.

Besides, you could do the same thing with energy hardpoint class penalties rather than hard locks- it would give some level of balance without removing as much player control. Unless all the problems are people not playing the game the way you want them to...well, such is the way with online multiplayer gaming I am afraid.

Edited by Wibbledtodeath, 16 September 2015 - 05:10 AM.