97 replies to this topic

[kesmai]

One star + 3 points vs a company in cw. Battlevalue rating for the public queue. Completely remove quirks etc. Set clan weaponry back to original values.

[MischiefSC]

kesmai, on 13 September 2015 - 11:16 PM, said:

One star + 3 points vs a company in cw. Battlevalue rating for the public queue. Completely remove quirks etc. Set clan weaponry back to original values.

You know we have already spent a page saying why it's a bad idea and won't work, plus that PGI said that will never happen at any point, ever.

[Vlad Ward]

MischiefSC, on 13 September 2015 - 09:34 PM, said:

According to Lore IS wins, Clanners are regularly stupid and make stupid choices based on their culture. That's not enforced in game either. Lore is full of bad ideas.

idk I'm pretty stupid

Edited by Vlad Ward, 13 September 2015 - 11:47 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

(edit: TT)Lore is when a mech pilot must not aim at a target area of an opposing Mech at 30m because of the dice prohibits and instead of the center torso in 30m then the left foot hits

Edited by CSJ Ranger, 14 September 2015 - 07:15 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

CSJ Ranger, on 14 September 2015 - 02:36 AM, said:

Lore is when a mech pilot must not aim at a target area of an opposing Mech at 30m because of the dice prohibits and instead of the center torso in 30m then the left foot hits

You are conflating lore with the table-top rules.

[Lugh]

Naduk, on 13 September 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

10v12 does nothing to solve the problem of clans being straight up OP
Only they aren't it's you not exploiting their weaknesses that make them seem so..
it does not matter that you have two less players when you still have 3 timberwolfs on your side
Focus fire and superior numbers make a huge difference
if you bring a timberwolf and i bring an orion your going to take me apart before i have even opened up 1 section of your armor
leaving you with more than enough health to repeat this action a few times
only if you trade poorly
in its current state it would need to be more like 6 vs 12
but thats just stupid

even if you gave all the clan weapons the same stats as the IS weapons but left their tonnage as clan(to not break everything)
it would be a clear advantage add that to omni mechs where you can choose your hardpoints and things are still looking down for the IS, then you still have all their lower space tech and no death XL's
thus even if clan weapons used the same damage stats as IS they would still be more powerful

not quite as scary but it would still be noticeable

so no, 10v12 is a stupid idea that will only enforce what everybody already believes that clans are the only way to win
so much so that they get taxed 2 players

in a world with no Zellbrigen the clans have no right being op
and they aren't your ineptitude is what makes them seem to be so.

The overall clan advantage by MATH is ~10-15% better than the IS.

And lo the underhive will not believe and will whine and cry unto PGI to 'fix clans'.

[ApolloKaras]

Lugh, on 14 September 2015 - 04:51 AM, said:

The overall clan advantage by MATH is ~10-15% better than the IS.

And lo the underhive will not believe and will whine and cry unto PGI to 'fix clans'.

What math are you referring to? Lore Math, TT math, magical math?

[cSand]

10 v 12 is one of those ideas that should be sawn up, put in a cardboard box, lit on fire, locked in a steel box, filled with concrete, and dropped to the furthest depths of the ocean

[Revis Volek]

10 V 12 breaks the SOLO QUEUE!

Terrible idea

Fur Shame...

[0bsidion]

I'd love to see it in CW because of lore reasons, but it's not really a practical solution for MM pugland. Honestly though, I play both IS and Clan mechs, and IS mechs are quite capable. Both sides have their advantages and disadvantages.

[Revis Volek]

Saxie, on 14 September 2015 - 06:46 AM, said:

What math are you referring to? Lore Math, TT math, magical math?

He means a MLX is 10-15% better then a FS9....duh Saxie.

CSJ Ranger, on 14 September 2015 - 02:36 AM, said:

Lore is when a mech pilot must not aim at a target area of an opposing Mech at 30m because of the dice prohibits and instead of the center torso in 30m then the left foot hits

Thats just a RNG mechanic....its not lore. It wasn't part of human nature to roll a die 20 before then shot their AC20 and performed based on the outcome?


"oh man rolled a 8, better close one eye for this shot!"

Edited by DarthRevis, 14 September 2015 - 07:10 AM.

[Deathpactt]

10 vs 12 will not happen for so many reasons so nothing to discuss realy.

[ApolloKaras]

DarthRevis, on 14 September 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:

He means a MLX is 10-15% better then a FS9....duh Saxie.

Then Magical math lol.

[Mystere]

cSand, on 14 September 2015 - 06:52 AM, said:

10 v 12 is one of those ideas that should be sawn up, put in a cardboard box, lit on fire, locked in a steel box, filled with concrete, and dropped to the furthest depths of the ocean

That idea of using Clan vs. IS formations will not die until balance is "fully" achieved. Unfortunately, I am beginning to doubt that will ever happen, with both PGI and the player base to blame.

How many balancing changes has MWO already undergone in it's short life, while still looking woefully incomplete?

What other "balancing" ideas will people put forth next if these new changes fail?


<I am putting on my "Doom and Gloom" hat just for this discussion.>

DarthRevis, on 14 September 2015 - 07:06 AM, said:

10 V 12 breaks the SOLO QUEUE!

Terrible idea

Fur Shame...

DId ECM break the solo queue?

[Lugh]

Saxie, on 14 September 2015 - 06:46 AM, said:

What math are you referring to? Lore Math, TT math, magical math?

The math you can do using the stats from smurphy's

[MischiefSC]

Lore accounted for the RNG mechanic by making specific aiming functionally impossible without a targeting computer. It actually is 'lore'. Only the greatest master pilots could approximately aim at specific locations.

The 10-15% superiority is top tier to top tier. It broadens as you move down the list given that the best performing Clan weapon overall is the most common where as the best performing IS weapons are bigger and heavier.

A 15% advantage moves a 50/50 win potential with equal skill to a 65% wins for me, 35% wins for the other guy scenario. It creates a 30% spread in actual in game performance for the binary of win/loss, kill/be killed.

Also cXL, ubiquitous ECM on high performing mechs, etc. etc. The PTS showed how broken it was without quriks. What I do admit I take some joy in is that it's been said, clearly, that Clan weapons and IS weapons will get balanced - which means rivers of tears on the forums as people who have for all intensive purposes said they will only play the game if they have an advantage will have to deal with an even playing field and come face to face with not actually being that good. All those incoming posts of 'Clans are worthless now, I can't win a game!' are going to literally just be people saying 'I was never actually that good at this game, I just needed OP gear to make me seem like I was good. PUT IT BACK!'

It's hard not to enjoy a little schadenfreude over that.

[ApolloKaras]

Lugh, on 14 September 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

The math you can do using the stats from smurphy's

Your math doesn't take into account the IS quirks....

Mystere, on 14 September 2015 - 08:05 AM, said:

DId ECM break the solo queue?

This isn't even a comparison. A good comparison would be that you have equal number of *insert ecm chassis here* on each side. 10v12 would certainly explode the solo queue. You are going to have to make sure each side has an equal number of clan chassis etc. This is going to make our queue times longer I fear.

[wanderer]

Quote

Not only that, PGI have officially addressed it, saying that it would require a huge amount of work to implement, and that they are not going to do it.

Y'know, like an actual collision system. Or a real overheat system. Little things.

Honestly, it'd be better if they changed up the MM to a tiering system where Clan 'Mechs were rated higher than IS 'Mechs of the same tonnage and the really big Clan 'Mechs like the Dire Wolf effectively take up extra slots, leaving a team at -1 'Mech slot per two Clan assaults or the like.

[Revis Volek]

Mystere, on 14 September 2015 - 08:05 AM, said:

That idea of using Clan vs. IS formations will not die until balance is "fully" achieved. Unfortunately, I am beginning to doubt that will ever happen, with both PGI and the player base to blame.

How many balancing changes has MWO already undergone in it's short life, while still looking woefully incomplete?

What other "balancing" ideas will people put forth next if these new changes fail?


<I am putting on my "Doom and Gloom" hat just for this discussion.>



DId ECM break the solo queue?

If you make Clan mechs more powerful then IS if you have 8 clan mechs on one side and 4 on the other who will win?

By doing 10 v 12 you will have to remake the MM to base matches off how many Clan mechs get into the drop. If you dont have an even amount of clan mechs as the other side you are gonna get a L.

How does ECM even equate to one set of mech being more powerful then another? You are not even making a comparison in the same neighborhood....just because i can compare apples and pigmy goats doesn't means its a good idea.

Balance is what makes the Solo queue possible with mixed tech...others wise it another mode with Clams vs Innernerds.

Lugh, on 14 September 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

The math you can do using the stats from smurphy's

I dont think even the mighty smurfys can make your maths or what you are peddling sound logical....

Edited by DarthRevis, 14 September 2015 - 10:31 AM.

[Aresye]

Example of asymmetrical balance:


Won't work.