46 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 15 September 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

Well Russ said that the skill tree was out of reach on the Town Hall as I remember and if thats the case, how about just one lol

My opinion as the "skill tree" should be replaced with "mech tree" - utilizing the same sort of buff/debuffs that they are planning on setting across the chassis' anyhow. Can't imagine it would take vastly longer to include the smaller mech personalized weapons systems ones as a 1 of 2/3 thing instead of hard coding roles directly to the mechs.

They do kind of have the backbone for the system already in place with both the quirks and the current skill tree, and if they wanted to go back at some point and rebuild up a pilot tree with other things that would feel more 'pilot' that would be great as well.

Basically it'd be mostly taking the baseline of their balancing things for each chassis and moving it to a select-able skill tree instead of dropping them right on the mechs. Most of the tree would just be the general ones that go across the entire line of variants (choose your buff/debuff combination need to have both tied together), and the few personalized ones many would end up with anyhow.

Take a little longer to develop? Maybe, but they can also do the hard-coded ones on PTS in the meantime to still get the numbers in the right range. At the end you have a far more interesting system for the players while not removing their options for play style.

[Anarcho]

In my dreams I still can see different pilot profiles, each with its own picture/faction and set of skills... Usefull skills and role based sills, so I can have a IS scout pilot and a Clan brawler one for example... much better than just grind the same mech for the same skills...

[Summon3r]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 15 September 2015 - 02:04 PM, said:

Gotta raise the TTK somehow

Getting one shot as soon as the enemy sees you gets tired really fast

agreed but slowing down mechs and increasing heat a little will do nothing to change the alpha kings and what not? a 6 LL STK seems still viable, gigaspike/alphaking DWF still viable, along with most other meta type mechs no?

[Chuck Jager]

If the non-elited mechs were separated in Q I would say bad Idea. To many mid level players trying to level mechs makes for a really bad team. Bringing the 2 groups closer may be better.

[SolCrusher]

I would love a revamped skill tree that incorporated things similar to World of War Craft. Each chasis would have all the same branches. If you wanted to for instance

Weapon Tracks
A track for making missiles better SRM or LRM. (Could include Range, Damage, Cooldown, Ammo Capacity)
A track for making it better at using Auto Cannons
A track for making it better at Lasers
A track for making it better with Gauss
A track for making it better with PPCs



Now the catch is each of these tracks cannot be fully mastered. You can choose select part of each for an all around build, or focus on a single track. You'd never end up with a perfect Gauss / PPC build but it could be complementary.

Each track should have things like this:
Cool Down for weapons based on a specific type of weapon in that category. So you could get bonuses on Sm, Med or Large but not all three. Same could be done with Autocannons, ppcs, missiles and everything else.

Range extension based on competency with your chosen weapons, all still part of the overall track for a particular class of weapons. More range bonuses the fewer other things can be done.

Increase ammo capacity for LRMS, Autocannons, Gauss, which to all the same track idea for lasers you could reduce the heat generated. I think heat reduction could be applied to LRMS, ACs, Gauss but if that's applied then you can't get increased ammo capacity.

A tracks for modifiying your Mech
Add additional levels of Amor, Structure, and increase engine caps (Limited on some chassis' due to hit registration bubbles)
Bonus for Torso twist angles, torso twist speed, accel, decel, arm arcs, yaw and other agility items.
Make things have 5 levels each or something. Make where you can't get all of them, in fact tie some of these tracks to the weapon tracks.

Add Tracks for Information War fare.
If they are introducing a heavily modded ranges then why not give a track to allow for these values to be changed / customized all through skill tracks.

Obviously they have modules for some of this stuff and maybe only make modules usable when someone hasn't followed a weapon track. Obviously the weapon tracks should give you better bonuses than the modules to encourage using tracks.

But this idea will pigeon hole my mech into a particular role!!!!! Well, for a MC purchase you can reset your Skill Tracks and lose 50% of the XP. So now you can re-skill it to something else. Chase the Meta if you will.

I'd like to write up an entire new skill system, I've done similar things for Table Top games and this game isn't near as complicated as some pen and paper games out there.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

sycocys, on 15 September 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

They do kind of have the backbone for the system already in place with both the quirks and the current skill tree

Given that was supposed to be a placeholder...

Summon3r, on 15 September 2015 - 04:37 PM, said:

agreed but slowing down mechs and increasing heat a little will do nothing to change the alpha kings and what not? a 6 LL STK seems still viable, gigaspike/alphaking DWF still viable, along with most other meta type mechs no?

seems Ghost Heat never fixed those did it? Wasnt stopping the 6 ppc 60 point alpha mechs the point?

SolCrusher, on 15 September 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

I'd like to write up an entire new skill system, I've done similar things for Table Top games and this game isn't near as complicated as some pen and paper games out there.

Well given that we were told that a new skill tree was out was just hoping we could fix ONE of the completely useless skills with manybe something thats useful since theres no convergence system anymore and increasing the % more of a system that doesnt exist is pretty much the definition of worthless

[El Bandito]

Sean Lang, on 15 September 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

Paul mentioned this past Friday that the current skill tree values were going to be toned down significantly on the PTS (No date set for that). He did not mention pinpoint, but it is an obvious choice to just remove/replace.

Can we just remove the stupid "Must buy three to elite one" money scheme? Tired of it, and it is surely not going to sit well with the Steam horde due to low rewards in this game.

[sycocys]

Like the WoW type tree idea, though I'd really prefer it to replace the mech balancing by quirks thing we saw in the early PTS. Placing more of those balance concepts (concepts some of those numbers were crazy) into skill choices with the player actively selecting their buffs/debuffs would make for far more interesting play than forced roles.

Getting rid of the current skill tree with the % and double % buffs might actually do a lot of good towards settling some of the imbalances down as well. Yes they'd technically be the same imbalances I guess but it would alleviate TTK a bit with 15% cooling and heat thresh hold gone as well as the additional fire rates and speed tweak (which to a good degree sets an imbalance for new players vs everyone else just in one skill).

Not sure MC resetting would go over well though - depends on how well/fast they lock down the skill sets and balance.

Do really like the tree's route though. Adds more depth for us, eases the ability for PGI to find some semblance of and maintain balance.

[sycocys]

El Bandito, on 15 September 2015 - 06:01 PM, said:

Can we just remove the stupid "Must buy three to elite one" money scheme? Tired of it, and it is surely not going to sit well with the Steam horde due to low rewards in this game.

I never did care for it either - but more on the lines of "Why would owning 3 double my heat efficiency or make my torso twist that much further/faster?"

The tree sort of made more sense early on, but the whole being generic thing just makes it kind of washy and uninteresting - How much more can an urbie twist? Whats the purpose of arm skills on mechs that don't even have arm mounted weapons?

[BumbleBee]

sycocys, on 15 September 2015 - 02:08 PM, said:

Would much rather see the devs take more time on the balancing and use the skill tree as a way for the players to select their style within each mech with buffs and appropriate debuffs - but player choice rather than a spreadsheet deciding how our mechs perform.

I would like the same thing. I came up with a basic concept and some examples of the types of things I'd like to see. I posted the idea, but it didnt get any hits :/
http://mwomercs.com/...93#entry4624693

[stjobe]

Praetor Knight, on 15 September 2015 - 01:25 PM, said:

I'd favor a proper Skill Tree, or allow for a modular one.

YES!

This is what we need:



A proper skill tree, where you pick and choose from ways of making your 'mech better - and where you can't (and don't need to) have them all.

Bravo Dingo Red, bravo.

Edit: I also love that it can be used to incentivize stock loadouts instead of having to use quirks; just have skills that affect stock loadouts on there, but refrain from general ones. E.g. the AC/20 skills in the above tree, but no general ballistic ones. So if you're running a stock loadout (with an AC/20) you'll get benefits, if you're running a Gauss rifle instead you won't get those benefits.

Edited by stjobe, 15 September 2015 - 11:32 PM.

[Bloody]

it would be nice to have a proper skill tree ala MMORPG style but lets be honest, it is likely beyond the limited capability of PGI to implement or even figure out. Hell they do not even know HOW to test stuff on PTS

[Widowmaker1981]

I dunno. Some more variation or choice would be good.. but currently driving assaults before 2x basics is.. very painful and unpleasant, especially assaults with low engine caps. Take away those agility boni and.. well. Assaults with low engine caps might become rather unplayable.

[Yellonet]

stjobe, on 15 September 2015 - 11:24 PM, said:

YES!

This is what we need:



A proper skill tree, where you pick and choose from ways of making your 'mech better - and where you can't (and don't need to) have them all.

Bravo Dingo Red, bravo.

Edit: I also love that it can be used to incentivize stock loadouts instead of having to use quirks; just have skills that affect stock loadouts on there, but refrain from general ones. E.g. the AC/20 skills in the above tree, but no general ballistic ones. So if you're running a stock loadout (with an AC/20) you'll get benefits, if you're running a Gauss rifle instead you won't get those benefits.

Not sure I'm a fan of this, wouldn't it mean locking in certain mechs even more to a certain roll than quirks currently do?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

sycocys, on 15 September 2015 - 06:17 PM, said:

I never did care for it either - but more on the lines of "Why would owning 3 double my heat efficiency or make my torso twist that much further/faster?"

The tree sort of made more sense early on, but the whole being generic thing just makes it kind of washy and uninteresting - How much more can an urbie twist? Whats the purpose of arm skills on mechs that don't even have arm mounted weapons?

Thats the point of upping convergence when it doesnt exist in the game XD

[Elizander]

Sean Lang, on 15 September 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

Paul mentioned this past Friday that the current skill tree values were going to be toned down significantly on the PTS (No date set for that). He did not mention pinpoint, but it is an obvious choice to just remove/replace.

Toning down the bonuses will help new players a lot. The gap between non-basic and elite is just too big not even counting player experience and skill.

New players generally cannot do normal tactics like peek and shoot without dying due to the slow acceleration and turning and some mechs just flat out overheat and miss out on an extra salvo.

[TexAce]

Summon3r, on 15 September 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

skills toned down? as in mechs will be more sluggish and run hotter?

I say that's good. Increases TTK and makes everyone not play like a lucid COD kiddy.

Yellonet, on 15 September 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

Not sure I'm a fan of this, wouldn't it mean locking in certain mechs even more to a certain roll than quirks currently do?

It gives a reason to level more than 1 mech and to define how a mech feels. Whats the problem of having a mech define a special role? Its basically what you do in every other RPG with your char.

And changing perks could cost MC. Another way of income for PGI. All good.

We have 200+ mechs soon, its time we give them special roles. Not all of them need to be able to be everything.

Edited by TexAce, 16 September 2015 - 01:12 AM.

[Alex Warden]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 15 September 2015 - 02:04 PM, said:

good question. Maybe we wont need to anymore?



Gotta raise the TTK somehow

Getting one shot as soon as the enemy sees you gets tired really fast

i´d agree... well in fact, TTK is too fast for my taste for almost 2 years now... but i doubt that toned down skills will do the trick here...

contrary, less effictve skills mean slower/ less agile victims, while a little slower aiming doesn´t reduce the overkill factor... the only somewhat limting factor might be the slightly reduced heat eff...

Edited by Alex Warden, 16 September 2015 - 01:19 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Alex Warden, on 16 September 2015 - 01:12 AM, said:

i´d agree... well in fact, TTK is too fast for my taste for almost 2 years now... but i doubt that toned down skills will do the trick here...

They wont.. well maybe the heat ones (a bit, and wouldnt affect Ballistic builds at all).. but removing / reducing the agility quirks will decrease TTK, because people will be able to evade fire/get out of bad spots less effectively.

[aniviron]

Sean Lang, on 15 September 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

Paul mentioned this past Friday that the current skill tree values were going to be toned down significantly on the PTS (No date set for that). He did not mention pinpoint, but it is an obvious choice to just remove/replace.

You just made me so very happy.

Not as happy as a complete skill tree rework would make me, but it's a good start.