17 replies to this topic

[SplashDown]

Hello all
I've been reading the forums a'lot today and have noticed a'lot of threads screaming nerf this n that.So Now i'm not a fan of the nerf bat and i hate the idea of clan getting nerfed ever.However
i also have to recognize that in a 12v12 IS is out matched.....That being said.

I want to throw a few ideas out and see what my fellow table top vets think.

I don't think pub matches should be mixed teams of IS and clan,Instead give clan its tech advantage and give IS its numbers advantage and have them on opposing teams.Teams of course would have to be rebalanced. Oh and no more light lances instead have one light mech attached to each lance/star and team comp imo should be as follow's.

Inner Sphere) 4 lances/ 4 mech's per lance..1 light mech 3 randoms per lance.
Clan) 2 Stars/ 5 mech's per star..1 light mech 4 randoms per star.

Making the matches a 16 vs 10 match..i think this has the potential to balance out the game.

Would also like to point out the reason i suggest 1 light mech per lance/star is so that the light mech players get a real sense of what there job is..instead of a entire lance of light mechs trying to catch up with the heavy mechs to avoid getting owned. Light mechs would be able to scout for there lance and run back to the heavies when in trouble.(ofc this would require the individual player to be aware not to go to far away from the big boy's). Plus this would allow IS lights to 2v1 those pesky cheetahs =).

I think this has real potential to work in both pub matches as well as faction matches and keep clans from walking threw the galaxy.

IMHO this would create a real sense of teamwork and give players a real job description within there own lance/star. I also think this would encourage teamwork among the player base across the board and open up possibilities of expanding the game in new directions in the future.

Again this is just an idea of an old table top player.

Sincerely and Respectfully......SplashDown

P.S. i see so much potential in this great game and only offer my opinion to encourage growth and expansion..i look forward to you're replies.

[Christof Romulus]

10 vs 16? Wow.

Inner Sphere technology is bad - but it isn't THAT bad.

Yes, Clan tech is 1.5x as good on average over IS tech, but every mech you add to one side is another heat scale entirely. 2 Atlas would completely wrek one Kodiak, for example, just because of heat alone.

Honestly I don't think that this is a viable plan. I'm sorry.

[SplashDown]

Christof Romulus, on 28 September 2015 - 05:56 PM, said:

10 vs 16? Wow.

Inner Sphere technology is bad - but it isn't THAT bad.

Yes, Clan tech is 1.5x as good on average over IS tech, but every mech you add to one side is another heat scale entirely. 2 Atlas would completely wrek one Kodiak, for example, just because of heat alone.

Honestly I don't think that this is a viable plan. I'm sorry.

Ty for you're reply..this is why i posted..my idea isnt ment to be carved in stone..But is ment to be a guideline.and ajustable to what would be balanced.
Do you have any thoughts as to what team types would work?

Edited by SplashDown, 28 September 2015 - 06:03 PM.

[DivineEvil]

No. Separation is not an option.
Double int. structure again for IS mechs.
Smaller base Heat Cap for IS mechs.
No base Heat Cap for Clan mechs.
True DHS for both and buffed SHS heat dissipation rates.

Solves Alpha-Strike meta.
Solves low Time-To-Kill.
Solves Clan-IS balance.

Done.

Edited by DivineEvil, 28 September 2015 - 06:11 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

By the way Russ has said No a million times to anything without equal numbers.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 28 September 2015 - 06:16 PM.

[Lykaon]

SplashDown, on 28 September 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

Hello all
I've been reading the forums a'lot today and have noticed a'lot of threads screaming nerf this n that.So Now i'm not a fan of the nerf bat and i hate the idea of clan getting nerfed ever.However
i also have to recognize that in a 12v12 IS is out matched.....That being said.

I want to throw a few ideas out and see what my fellow table top vets think.

I don't think pub matches should be mixed teams of IS and clan,Instead give clan its tech advantage and give IS its numbers advantage and have them on opposing teams.Teams of course would have to be rebalanced. Oh and no more light lances instead have one light mech attached to each lance/star and team comp imo should be as follow's.

Inner Sphere) 4 lances/ 4 mech's per lance..1 light mech 3 randoms per lance.
Clan) 2 Stars/ 5 mech's per star..1 light mech 4 randoms per star.

Making the matches a 16 vs 10 match..i think this has the potential to balance out the game.

Would also like to point out the reason i suggest 1 light mech per lance/star is so that the light mech players get a real sense of what there job is..instead of a entire lance of light mechs trying to catch up with the heavy mechs to avoid getting owned. Light mechs would be able to scout for there lance and run back to the heavies when in trouble.(ofc this would require the individual player to be aware not to go to far away from the big boy's). Plus this would allow IS lights to 2v1 those pesky cheetahs =).

I think this has real potential to work in both pub matches as well as faction matches and keep clans from walking threw the galaxy.

IMHO this would create a real sense of teamwork and give players a real job description within there own lance/star. I also think this would encourage teamwork among the player base across the board and open up possibilities of expanding the game in new directions in the future.

Again this is just an idea of an old table top player.

Sincerely and Respectfully......SplashDown

P.S. i see so much potential in this great game and only offer my opinion to encourage growth and expansion..i look forward to you're replies.

10 vs 16 is way way to large of an advantage. 10 vs 12 may be to advantagious (if the clans have a disconnect it's 9 vs 12 and that is a fairly solid lead for any team to have to fight out of.

Also, by dividing the queue (yet again) by technology base the matchmaker will struggle to build matches.

Think on it.We already have several divisions in the player base that the matchmaker needs to sort through.

We have game modes
Player Tiers
Groups
Solos
CW players
add in technology base and search times will be longer and release valves will need to be even less constrictive to meet the demand of the match maker perameters.

Also why do you feel that light mechs are only recon? there are several distinctive roles a light mech can fill and being good at one role may make you terrible in another.

For example I have and frequently pilot Ravens.

I have a Huginn 4x MGs 2X SRM4 280XL engine.This mech is my ambush hunter.I tear off early game and make my way behind the enemy lines and try to execute something vital like assault mechs or ECM.

I have a Raven 3L with ECM,NARC and TAG SRM6 and 2x Med. Lasers.This mech lacks the DPS to make quick kills like the Huginn.However it's a nightmare if my team has LRMs (So mostly used in groups)

I have a second Raven 3L with ECM 2x Med. Laser,SRM2 w/.5 ton ammo and an ER-PPC. This is a sniper and lacks the sustained damage to harass the enemy up close or the equipment to spot for LRMs.

Three Raven chassis and three different roles.

[DrnkJawa]

oh just disable clan ECM and ill show you the true meaning of cold blooded....

[Karl Streiger]

First - make ALL ClanOmni Mechs MK I - make it before the IICs are released.
(ES for all - reduced Engine Heatsinks, no fixed JumpJets, maybe some reactor tweaking (Ferret,Nova,Mist Lynx, Kit Fox)
With the same qualitys on one side you can balance stuff - you can not balance IS vs Clan as long there is so horrible miss balance Clan vs Clan

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Christof Romulus, on 28 September 2015 - 05:56 PM, said:

10 vs 16? Wow.

Inner Sphere technology is bad - but it isn't THAT bad.

Yes, Clan tech is 1.5x as good on average over IS tech, but every mech you add to one side is another heat scale entirely. 2 Atlas would completely wrek one Kodiak, for example, just because of heat alone.

Honestly I don't think that this is a viable plan. I'm sorry.

What if we stuck to tech level one stuff (3025 tech)... that'd be interesting. Unfortunately it'd kill the game because no one wants to be cannon fodder (except TT nerds like me).

It's also interesting that if you stick to the stock 3025 mechs the game is pretty well balanced. Someday PGI will grant my wish and give me random faction appropriate 3025 stock mech community warfare. Maybe you'll get a 3PPC awesome or a hunchback... or you might get stuck in a Banshee 3E with a single AC5 and a PPC...

[Triordinant]

They've been trying to balance Clan vs IS for a year without success. They should try this in the meantime until they finally balance everything:

http://mwomercs.com/...ine-3050-event/

[Khobai]

they shouldve done 12v10 from the start

its not like their matchmaker even works anyway

[Dracol]

Khobai, on 29 September 2015 - 03:38 AM, said:

they shouldve done 12v10 from the start

its not like their matchmaker even works anyway

Uneven number of members on a team works when a player is controlling multiple numbers of units. (zerg v protoss, table top Battletech).

Unfortunately in a game like MWO, where a player is in control of a single unit and no-re spawns, it is not viable due to human psychology. Players will think about how their individual experience will be and choose the more powerful single unit over a weaker one, majority of the time.

Example to illustrate:
Mech A is expected and powerful enough, on average, to destroy 1.2 half opponents to achieve victory
Mech B is expected and powerful enough, on average, to destroy .83 opponents to achieve victory

Which mech will the majority choose? Mech A, the more powerful mech.

So, the majority of players will choose Clan mechs, leaving the IS player base woefully undermanned.

Edited by Dracol, 29 September 2015 - 03:57 AM.

[Duke Nedo]

Nah, XL normalization, some equipment/weapon asymmetric tweaking, then apply quirks to help the bad variants and the bad omnis. Done.

[Dino Banino]

I definitely appreciate the post. I think balance still needs to be addressed as it is far from perfect, and with people like you on the forums, no matter how proposterous the ideas presented, active discussion is still promoted.

However, that being said, I believe that ever since PGI stemmed away from canon, large portions of battletech fans ran away from the game, and it is understandable.

With battletech coming in about t-minus 5 hours, I think this game could potentially lose some players, myself included.

Don't get me wrong, MWO is a great game, and I might jump on it here and there, but ever since armor values were doubled from 16 points per ton to 32, and then quirks were added, the game really lost its battletech feel.

In terms of your idea, I'm going to have to disagree. Just one extra 'Mech for an IS team - especially with a capable pilot - can make all the difference, so that rules out 13+ v 12.

Edited by Archangel Dino, 29 September 2015 - 04:11 AM.

[DivineEvil]

What is that "IS team" you're talking about? Aren't teams are always mixed?

[SplashDown]

Hey guys n gals i really apreciate all the feed back...thanks to you're replies i have a bit better understanding of this game myself =).
I made this post for this very reason to see if others had similar idea's or if it was to far fetched.
I was also thinking along the lines of other kool game fetures wich i never see..such as team work...and perhaps creating a bit more of a rivalry on the faction war side of things.
Wish a way could be found..as i think it would be awesome.

Once again thanks for the feed back folk's

Edited by SplashDown, 30 September 2015 - 05:58 PM.

[InspectorG]

Monkey Lover, on 28 September 2015 - 06:15 PM, said:

By the way Russ has said No a million times to anything without equal numbers.

MM cant even.

[InspectorG]

@ OP

Many-faceted problem that goes back to Lore, yes Lore was 'unbalanced'.

IMO:

Lights get 10 true dubs w/ any engine.
Lights get ammo buff.

Clan weapons ans IS weapons should do SAME damage per weapon and ranges should have more parity. Clan 'superiority' is not in the weapon stats but rather in it being smaller/lighter, per se. This is further compounded with Clan Endo/Ferro/XL/Pods.

Pods that 'boat' hardpoints receive a structure nerf 30%-50%. Has to be severe to make a pilot choose risk and adjust style accordingly.

Heavies and Assaults receive a mobility/agility nerf so that, aside from the 'more mobile mechs in each class' become way more forward oriented in firepower and lose out on width of firing arc.
Holy Trinity and T1 IS mechs become less agile, other T2+ that are mobile gain value as flankers(Summoners/Gargels/etc)

Engines: IS XL= Clan XL...no side torso death. ST loss nerfs agility/heat dissapation(or whatever)
STD engines receive a significant structure buff (+50 points?) to CT/ST depending.
Clan superiority is expressed in the engine requiring one less crit slot.

'INFOTECH'...we will see but im leaning towards it affecting Player/RADAR/Comms interaction and firing without a lock-on results in a 50% damage reduction. Ammo would likely need a buff.