18 replies to this topic

[Zeph0]

Now I want to be neutral in all of this, I love CW, but why do so many players not follow through with plans...and then proceed to be offended when called out on it?
In general what is up with players not wanting to get those sweet rewards, and only wanting to sit still when attacking in the invasion game mode, and blitzing solo wolf style when defending?
I know you are encouraged to drop in groups, and believe me I do every time I can, but can some players just drop this elitist bs and play the game as a TEAM instead of getting offended by a plan.

[Commander A9]

People are selfish and driven by self-interest; they have a Call of Duty mentality which leads them to believe out of delusions of grandeur that they can take on an entire company of opponents and come out on top, but we've all seen how 12-vs-1 odds end up playing out.

That and people are less inclined to cooperate to achieve victory because they are convinced as an individual that they know more than the drop commander, and that they are in the right, rather than placing their trust in an otherwise unknown player.

Another problem is the unwillingness to step up to take command, for fear of being wrong, or the belief that "no one will listen anyway."

Yet again, people have different skill sets, different play styles, and different ideas regarding how best to accomplish the game; all of these clash when you bring 12 individuals from across the gaming spectrum to one "team." Some are too timid to charge in facing potential destruction-others foolishly rush in without thinking.

These same people will be quick to blame the matchmaker for sending twelve public unaffiliated players against 12-man teams in Community Warfare; the truth, however, is that the players consent to potentially fighting in this scenario the moment they click "launch," especially if they're the only 24 guys on a planet.

Solution? Join a major unit, learn from their officer, or use Looking For Group or form your own team and practice. Be willing to step up, give orders, ask for help, maneuver. Work together to win, or die alone.

Edited by Commander A9, 28 September 2015 - 10:29 PM.

[Setun]

I feel your pain friend, and honestly I really wish there would be smaller CW group matches like 4v4 or 8v8. Personally I can lead a lance reliably, but trying to corral 12 players is very difficult most of the time, especially when trying to do any tactic other than 'deathball for great justice'

[KinLuu]

Quote

why do so many players not follow through with plans...and then proceed to be offended when called out on it?

Well, if ty did not follow through with the plan, maybe they did not believe it was a good plan in the first place? And of course they are offended if you call them out on it.

[BSK]

Commander A9, on 28 September 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

Another problem is the unwillingness to step up to take command, for fear of being wrong.

Our unit tries to take command in first wave, if it doesnt work we go for damage instead of win. Except when we play on Boreal, too many pugs pick the wrong mechs ..

[Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf]

Zeph0, on 28 September 2015 - 07:51 PM, said:

TEAM instead of getting offended by a plan.

Maybe the plan itself was bad?

I'm not saying it is, but more than once I've heard some kid yelling "push, push now!" when clearly it was not the time to do so. But he couldn't see, because his "awesome sniper mech" was 600m behind.

[kesmai]

Sthtopokeon, on 29 September 2015 - 04:41 AM, said:

Maybe the plan itself was bad?

I'm not saying it is, but more than once I've heard some kid yelling "push, push now!" when clearly it was not the time to do so. But he couldn't see, because his "awesome sniper mech" was 600m behind.

you are not talking about a certain liao pilot, arent you?

[jper4]

the problem with the "bad plan" scenario- is that the person who thinks so 1) doesn't say anything so other people who don't know better may go along with it leading to a divided force and a quick loss, at which point the person will naturally proclaim how they knew the plan was bad all along and everyone else is a noob etc, and 2) won't offer an alternative plan if they don't like the proposed one, to promote their "superior" knowledge- so they can complain after the match how they knew the plan was bad all along and everyone else is a noon etc.

personally unless the plan is really bad like "hey let's all hop over the wall and go to this corner hex because they'll never expect us to flank them from there!" i'll just go along with whatever's proposed- some people may be doing so already via the "only thing suggested" theory and the more people doing the same thing the better chance you have. if people feel like they can complain about it then open your mouth BEFORE the match and not after.

[Wildstreak]

OP sound familiar, not the poster, the content of the OP.

Sounds like PUG queue.

What is this doing in CW?

[QuulDrah]

Well, there are no "bad plans", as far as i can tell. Virtually _any_ plan is better than no plan at all in CW. (more or less the exact opposite of my RL attitude - no plan is the best plan, but i disgress)

12 strangers in the game are just 11 blips on the minimap. Might as well be sophisticated bots.
11 strangers and one guy calling shots? That's a team. "West Gate! Now!", "Defend at D6.", or even a simple "Let's win this. Stick together." Is it a good plan? Time will tell... But that feeling, when 12 people move as one, when 12 little blue-ish triangles all converge at the same point? Glorious. :-D

A plan may work, or a plan might fail. Spectacularly, sometimes. But as long as it is a plan, it's worth following through.

So thanks to everyone brave enough to take the lead (not me!). Much appreciated...

[Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf]

kesmai, on 29 September 2015 - 04:43 AM, said:

you are not talking about a certain liao pilot, arent you?

Of course not. And even if I would, I shouldn't because name and shame would be a violation of forum rules.

[Djinnhammer]

KinLuu, on 29 September 2015 - 01:11 AM, said:

Well, if ty did not follow through with the plan, maybe they did not believe it was a good plan in the first place? And of course they are offended if you call them out on it.

Still don't make them right though, does it?
They are capable of typing or talking if needed, CW isn't the soloQ-no matter how hard certain "people" want it to be....

[Commander A9]

Well, perhaps I can quote Colin Powell when I say "No plan survives first contact with the enemy."

Sun Tsu might also say "If the orders are clear and understood, and the soldiers do not obey, it is the fault of the soldier. If the orders are unclear or misunderstood, it is the fault of the commander."

So, it takes a willingness to command, good tactical decision making, situational awareness, and courage to lead effectively. It all comes with practice; although prior leadership, especially in a military format, does help.

Edited by Commander A9, 29 September 2015 - 07:32 AM.

[KinLuu]

Commander A9, on 29 September 2015 - 07:27 AM, said:

Sun Tsu might also say "If the orders are clear and understood, and the soldiers do not obey, it is the fault of the soldier. If the orders are unclear or misunderstood, it is the fault of the commander."

Kin-Luu says, Pug commander who has no idea better keep his mouth shut.

There is no commander in a pug drop, only solo-players and maybe some 3-4 man groups, that stick to their own TS/Vent/Whatever.

[Dawnstealer]

Commander A9, on 28 September 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

People are selfish and driven by self-interest; they have a Call of Duty mentality which leads them to believe out of delusions of grandeur that they can take on an entire company of opponents and come out on top, but we've all seen how 12-vs-1 odds end up playing out.

This is a lot of it - in COD, one player going Rambo or being an elite sniper, can turn the whole battle and win the day single-handedly. I don't think I've ever seen the same happen in MWO. But that doesn't mean that mentality goes away.

Sthtopokeon, on 29 September 2015 - 04:41 AM, said:

Maybe the plan itself was bad?

Again, in my experience, even a bad plan can succeed if the team all does it together. I've seen that happen in PUG drops a lot: "GO THIS WAY!!" and then the bulk of the team spins that way, which is almost certain death, but the team pulls through because they went as a unit, and their opponents didn't react as one.

[Jumping Gigolo]

bad plan is better than no plan

[KinLuu]

Jumping Gigolo, on 29 September 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

bad plan is better than no plan

But the plan is always the same? Why ask?

[Surn]

beta 1 our unit of 3-4 active members tagged 3 planets with pug groups. Since the latest op clan mechs doing so the inner sphere side is near impossible...but we still win sometimes and often put up a good fight.

[Undercover Brother]

I've been saying this since we were still in closed BETA: For CW to truly work, you need a tactical command format. Who here had played MechCommander? If every team had a tactical commander, able to see each friendly mech's loadout, damage, and also see everything his/her teammates' sensors can see, as well as a tactical view of the battlefield, you're in business. In BT Lore, the C3 Computer was the backbone of this system. Any friendly mech that carried the 1/2 ton slave unit, could transmit real-time data to the massive C3 Computer, typically located in the Commander's Assault or Heavy mech. Later on, the Federated Commonwealth started putting entire divisions of "MechCommanders" on specially outfitted dropships, capable of providing tactical command over HUNDREDS of mech units during the invasion of the Clan homeworlds.

I, myself, suck as a mech driver. What I am damn good at, is called "situational awareness". In other words, I can take in everything going on around me, and can make split second decisions to alter those things. I'm a great tactician. I'd give up any and all my personal stats if it meant jacking up my WIN/LOSS ratio. I'm no leader, but when people follow my lead, we always seem to win. If every team had someone with the ability to see everything, matches would be so much more epic! Hell, imagine 48 vs 48 matches, over maps that are 10x the size of the largest maps yet.