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Does Rngesus Love You? - Seperating The Crud In The Event

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#1 Deathlike

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 06:54 PM

I usually like events. It breaks down the monotony of the game sometimes. It's probably the only occasional reason to play the game.

Let's be clear... events are a grindfest. That's what they are. Don't mistake them for something that they are not.

Is your time and effort worth it? It depends who you ask, but since it heavily relies on RNG, there's no way you'll get the public matches done in 9 (or CW in 6).

I'll break this down into three sections, since I like 3, and while there are many other facets that make the grind untenable, it doesn't actually afford everyone an equal opportunity to succeed.

So, let's get to the core issue... fun, or lack thereof.


1) 11% of you might enjoy this event

When I saw the rewards of the event, I thought it seemed alright. While I don't expect most casual players to take part of the leaderboard part of the event, the leaderboard is part of a bigger problem that will get referenced here.

The goal of the event is to score highly on every map in the current rotation... 9 maps for Public Drops, and 6 maps for CW.

CW requires a huge time commitment, and while I don't want to discuss it primarily, it gets a mention due to how maps work in CW (it's already RNG-based, but you get to play them all IF AND ONLY IF you have like 2 groups going on).


For public drops, they are currently weighed equally, so there's an 11% chance you'll get the map you need.

Just for a moment consider what you experience in just the pub drops.

Getting the same map repeatedly is not just a random event, it's kinda hilarious RNG-relatedness (or an unseeded RNG), but you'll also get maps you may not even see in even a 2 hour block (assuming, you finish matches within 10 mins).


Look at it in terms of a more casual event... "Kill The Devs". In said event, the only way to collect your reward is IF there's a lot of dev drops, AND they are NOT on your team AND you are the one killing them (that is, the dev doesn't find a way to die or get TKed). While probably even 1% of the population has the reward, you're playing "a needle in a haystack".

While you'll expect a better chance here in the current event (and partly due to the probability being a bit higher), 11% is still a low probability... especially considering the length of time you get (5 days-ish).

I make the joke whenever private matches are done... that there are "no other maps". While you can actually control the map, setting the map to "random" oftentimes puts you back in the same map or same series of maps over and over. For what reason, I don't know... but let's just say... the odds can work against you... like "the House" in any gambling related game, or saying to yourself "just one more match" in the attempt to get the map you need.


2) Disco fever - You're not playing my tune

While PGI initially tried to introduce the disco rule (and failed miserably, due to insufficient QA testing), the fear was to stop people from immediately quitting from not getting the map they needed to complete the event. I get this, but even if this is solved, it doesn't solve the actual reality that people will "suicide" or "not try hard enough" to try to win the match.

People already know of the effect of losing one person in advance (back when we weren't able to reconnect in game), but imagine it happening multiple times and indefinitely until this event ends.

Back when we had the really early events... like the "most kills" and "most assists event", people were finding ways to super farm that event. I don't even remember when these events occurred anymore (early 2013 IIRC), but the thing was that farming the requirements was occurring.. and to an extent, this still happens in every tourney event.

The idea of simply "not showing up for the team" because the "map/situation was not favorable for farming" was an actual thing in virtually every tourney to date. Discoing was an actual option... an option that I'm kinda favoring on the last day, because I haven't gotten enough drops on a particular map (currently Mining Collective, but previously it was Forest Colony, since I didn't even get my base 300 yet due to lack of drops).


The reality is though that so many people have been doing it, and it's difficult to go through a game w/o it annoys the hell out of me. It's one thing to have bad teammates... it's another to have less than 11 teammates per match more often than not.


I spent many hours last night just trying to get the last map.. and it only showed up like twice in a 4+ hour block (through multiple blocks like this previously), while I didn't bother trying to lose (I practically won most of the games that night, and still managed to get the shameful 300 or 400 match score on a loss). Seeing people occasionally going the "suicide now" route just to avoid the discos only serve to piss me off more... whenever I spent actual time in the event.

I'd almost thing there shouldn't have been a "disco penalty" in the form that would have been implemented, but a "score reduction" for the leaderboards for non-participation. Basically, you'd have to make the bare min of the "old" 150 match score (300 damage) or face a penalty (like 10-25 points off your max possible score) until you do 2-3 "quality matches" scoring above 150 (this accounts for bad games or intentional discos - and even I don't like the idea).

Even then, I'd rather have reworked the "all 9 maps" requirement... to like 7 or 8 maps completed... but it is what it is.

Still... there's just one more thing that has to be resolved...


3) Casual players - you need not bother

Match score is heavily influenced by damage. It's was true when it was first introduced, but it is far more true today. Half of your damage is the base level of the match score. Everything else has minimal effect... outside of losing a mech in a CW match.

This in part serves to see the "LRM effect". While I dislike LRMs, and still believe they are the most inconsistent form of damage, I've often mentioned that using more ECM is the more general response (and UAV spotting, which some people are not paying enough attention to). Still, the level of play eventually required to complete the min scoring is still high, but that's the least of the average casual player's concern.

Imagine if the player spent on average 2 hours, every day... for 5 days trying to get the rewards. Even if the player is capable of getting the score, the chances of getting the maps they needed is actually pretty low. Remember that just because you get the map, doesn't mean you'll get the score you'd want. That scenario is just as unrealistic anyways... as it's a lot of time and effort spent in the first place... while not enough to be a hardcore tourney goer, but enough to be more than the usual fare (even the painful grinds for the free mechs had an end goal in sight - for this event, you might just be SOL).

You're competing against people that will try to get the biggest score possibly (arguably the minority), people that don't care (people that got their map and score already, or people that discoed, generally the majority), and people that don't have a shot (or don't care) to get the rewards (the rest of the players).

It's also worth pointing out that not every match is when you can collect the points... remember you could be on a winning team when dying early, just as much as the biggest carrying member of your losing effort.


Carrying a meta-mech is already a thing... in addition to a lot of damage dealing mechs that don't kill. Overvaluing match score only proves one thing... damage, despite inefficiency is king. Don't even worry assists or kills, or anything else. If you do 1k damage, you're already qualifying. Winning and losing has little meaning (20 points at most for winning). Teamplay is "optional". I'm not saying winning should be a requirement, but seeing people not even try to play to win is completely detrimental to a game that preaches teamwork.


While I could probably go on and on (because, PGI should feel bad), the reality is that the event on so many levels isn't worth it on a time for effort spent level. The rewards would have to be an order of magnitude better, or at least much longer than just the current timeframe (because time spent at a slot machine is the best equivalent of the event, except with "almost infinite coins" and a terrible payout).

So, I'll leave this post with something that expresses my opinion of the event almost perfectly..
If only the event getting the people to play wasn't like teeth pulling...

Edited by Deathlike, 21 September 2015 - 06:57 PM.


#2 riverslq

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 07:05 PM

View PostDeathlike, on 21 September 2015 - 06:54 PM, said:

(...)

yep,
what he said.

Edited by Catalina Steiner, 23 September 2015 - 08:40 AM.


#3 El Bandito

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 07:57 PM

View Postriverslq, on 21 September 2015 - 07:05 PM, said:

yep,
what he said.



Did you have to quote his entire post though? :huh:

#4 STEF_

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 09:49 PM

OP in a nutshell:

"This game desperately needs content".


aaaaaa btw pgi, when will come next mech pack announcement?

#5 Deathlike

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 10:06 PM

For the record, despite my nostalgia for the BK and the news about its quirks... I will very likely take a break from the game.

I am finding myself wanting to play other games, since I see more competence by other game devs (there are flaws, but compared to this game, they made actual content and progress).

It's sad that we're still more or less doing the same stuff since CW was "released" late last year.

#6 Wolfhagen

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 04:06 AM

View PostDeathlike, on 21 September 2015 - 06:54 PM, said:

Carrying a meta-mech is already a thing... in addition to a lot of damage dealing mechs that don't kill. Overvaluing match score only proves one thing... damage, despite inefficiency is king. Don't even worry assists or kills, or anything else. If you do 1k damage, you're already qualifying. Winning and losing has little meaning (20 points at most for winning). Teamplay is "optional". I'm not saying winning should be a requirement, but seeing people not even try to play to win is completely detrimental to a game that preaches teamwork.


What he said. Especially the quoted part.

#7 Wintersdark

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 06:15 AM

View PostDeathlike, on 21 September 2015 - 06:54 PM, said:

What you said.

What he said.

This tournament has really frustrated me. Despite having high scores elsewhere, I got 297 on Canyons... Then didn't see Canyons again throughout the rest of my time playing. So, despite lots of awesome scores, I'll get nothing. Not due to lack of effort (though, admittedly, as always time is a constraint for me - I simply cannot "play all weekend" what with working and fathering and whatnot).

What irritates me here is there's a certain set of folks who like to climb up on their high horses and insinuate that any disgruntlement with this tournament comes from a lack of ability to get the required scores (despite the fact that you don't need lots of actual skill to get a 300+ or 500+ score, just to be better than others on your team). It's not. I don't object to the "difficulty" level, though I *DO* think the requirements lead to truly repugnant play where you're better off playing badly than well.

What I object to, and very strongly at that, is the horrible RNGness of the event. If you simply don't get a map, then you don't get it.

Rough napkin math. Lets say you win 50% of your matches. And while it's possible to score on a losing match, lets say you're going to score only on 70% of winning matches. For most players, this is very generous - there are a tremendous number of reasons to fail to get 300+. But lets go with that.

You've got an 11% chance to get the map you want. Then 50% to win, then 70% to score. That means, each drop, you've got a .11*.5*.7 = 3.85% chance to score on a given map. Hell, lets be generous and push that to 5%. That's one in twenty... and it bears saying: Each time you DON'T get the map you need? You still only have a 1 in 20 chance of getting it next time. It's not like that map coming up for you becomes more likely as you drop on "wrong" maps.

#8 TercieI

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 06:34 AM

Yeah. Ok. I'm convinced. I personally enjoyed the event. I was done on Saturday night (~14 hours total). I knew I had a high conversion rate (100% CW, ~50% Standard) but I've come to realize how lucky my selection was (I played no more than a dozen CW matches)... But it's obvious now my experience was atypical. It was a poorly thought out event. I admit it.

Edited by Terciel1976, 22 September 2015 - 06:36 AM.


#9 Mycrus

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 06:39 AM

View PostDeathlike, on 21 September 2015 - 06:54 PM, said:


Imagine if the player spent on average 2 hours, every day... for 5 days trying to get the rewards. Even if the player is capable of getting the score, the chances of getting the maps they needed is actually pretty low. Remember that just because you get the map, doesn't mean you'll get the score you'd want. That scenario is just as unrealistic anyways... as it's a lot of time and effort spent in the first place... while not enough to be a hardcore tourney goer, but enough to be more than the usual fare (even the painful grinds for the free mechs had an end goal in sight - for this event, you might just be SOL).



never really was 'playing' the event... I just drop a few games here and there...

was in fact levelling mechs on the weekend... I still got 2 maps missing from tier 1...





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