58 replies to this topic

[Roadkill]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 22 September 2015 - 03:19 PM, said:

I like the idea of separate categories for weight class. I’d go so far as to add faction as well (clan/IS).

However I can see why PGI chose not to. I think if they do, they would need to decouple 3/3/3/3. I believe the formula they are using for PSR is biased towards damage done, and I think the upper tiers will have a higher population of Assault mechs would would impede the matchmaker, and delay games 'safety valves' open.

Sure, go for it. Though I don't think it would be necessary.

But honestly, if they had Mech-specific PSR (even better than weight class PSR) then you wouldn't need 3/3/3/3. Your rating would accurately reflect your skill in your Mech, which for most people would be lower for Lights and higher for Assaults. An all-Assault team would likely have a higher aggregate PSR and so would likely face another all-Assault team.

Sure, there would be edge cases. And I'm not sure it would work in the group queue. But off the top of my head I can't see why it wouldn't work in the solo queue.

[Kubernetes]

The thinking might be that, apart from mastering new mechs, most people don't regularly play mechs in which they're terrible.

[keith]

Ghogiel, on 22 September 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

New players aside I really don't think there is much between T2-4 since the main factor is just the amount of games played. Just play loads and the bar will fill up to max T1 eventually.

i will give pgi a bit more/less credit then that. my guess is its more like a number line. certain match score reach a break point, then gives u a + while some give u a -. as u get to a higher tier the threshold to get said + and - is harder. atleast thats how i would do, would make it simple and based off of match score.

[Y E O N N E]

Tiers most definitely should be broken up by weight class. As it is, choosing to drop in a class you are less familiar with is a straight wound to your standing, which has the potential to really upset match-making when you resume dropping with the equipment you are really adept with.

Alternatively, we could look at play-time and XP for individual 'Mechs and use that to modify the weight of a match result played in a given machine will have when applied to your total rank. Then you wouldn't need to break it up by weight class unless you assume Lights are inherently inferior tonnage (which they are, but the game treats them as equals).

[Torric]

With how this game works, and how much variance there is in the viability of mechs even within the different variants of the same chassis, and then added uneven quirking on top of it all...

...Yeah, we need a per-mech-psr.

[Chuck Jager]

If you notice PGI gave a basic description of "uses match score to determine PSR that is used in MM'.

They did not say other modifiers are or are not used in determining PSR and MM. I hope they are or plan to use other factors that add or subtract a percentage to both PSR and its use in MM. I also hope they never give out that info because folks will see it as a specific equation and stop trying their hardest to do better.

[Water Bear]

This is a little OT but who is a T1 player? I'm just curious what you have to do to be that good.

[Mycrus]

Mister Blastman, on 22 September 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

I really think they should go further and break them up my 'mech chassis. Back in the day when I tried hard there came a time I could never run my BJ-1 with AC/20 because it expected me to carry due to my overall medium Elo.

Sometimes we just want to have fun, right?

So I don't really want to go back to weight class alone, I'd rather do chassis model.

Even further... variant... else how would you level mechs..

[Krivvan]

Water Bear, on 22 September 2015 - 03:46 PM, said:

This is a little OT but who is a T1 player? I'm just curious what you have to do to be that good.

A lot of people are actually. It's hard to drop tiers it seems, so I guess you just gotta win games and do well (600+ damage) even when losing.

I could try speedrunning a new account from Tier 4 to Tier 1 some time to see.

My hunch is that it takes a lot of games no matter how good you are since there's no jumping tiers. My alt account is at Tier 3 from 10 hours worth of games to get 3 mastered Firestarters.

Edited by Krivvan, 22 September 2015 - 03:51 PM.

[Water Bear]

Krivvan, on 22 September 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

A lot of people are actually. It's hard to drop tiers it seems, so I guess you just gotta win games and do well (600+ damage) even when losing.

I could try speedrunning a new account from Tier 4 to Tier 1 some time to see.

My hunch is that it takes a lot of games no matter how good you are since there's no jumping tiers. My alt account is at Tier 3 from 10 hours worth of games to get 3 mastered Firestarters.

Really? Like who? I read in some other thread that there are supposed to be a lot of T1s but so far no one I've read has posted actually claiming it.

[Krivvan]

Water Bear, on 22 September 2015 - 03:52 PM, said:

Really? Like who? I read in some other thread that there are supposed to be a lot of T1s but so far no one I've read has posted actually claiming it.

Me for one. Also almost everyone (46 people, 28 active and semi-active) in my unit (SJR). Probably also pretty much everyone in EmP. A good number of pug-only players. Etc. I think I can list out 70-100 or so players that I know are tier 1 off the top of my head.

[Idealsuspect]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 September 2015 - 01:34 PM, said:

I have over 20k matches.... I should be higher than tie 3 by that reasoning.

20k matches since january 2015 ? wow you are a beast xD ( )

[Water Bear]

Krivvan, on 22 September 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

Me for one. Also almost everyone (46 people, 28 active and semi-active) in my unit (SJR). Probably also pretty much everyone in EmP. A good number of pug-only players. Etc. I think I can list out 70-100 or so players that I know are tier 1 off the top of my head.

Well your unit members and friends might be bosses. I guess I was curious what the frequency was among the general population.

[Krivvan]

Water Bear, on 22 September 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

Well your unit members and friends might be bosses. I guess I was curious what the frequency was among the general population.

A lot of people posting in the Reddit thread are Tier 1.
It's a different demographics from these forums though.

[Lyoto Machida]

Mister Blastman, on 22 September 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

I really think they should go further and break them up my 'mech chassis. Back in the day when I tried hard there came a time I could never run my BJ-1 with AC/20 because it expected me to carry due to my overall medium Elo.

Sometimes we just want to have fun, right?

So I don't really want to go back to weight class alone, I'd rather do chassis model.

crashlogic, on 22 September 2015 - 03:24 PM, said:

What he said...and not just by weight class, by chassis. My abilities are very different in a jenner than they will be in a Jenner IIC, or than they are in a Direwhale (in fact assaults as a concept elude me).

I'd love if they went a step further and broke it down by variants. Prob a bad example due to the upcoming quirk changes but I'll bet most pilots are better with a Dragon 1N vs the other ones...

[Ghogiel]

keith, on 22 September 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:

i will give pgi a bit more/less credit then that. my guess is its more like a number line. certain match score reach a break point, then gives u a + while some give u a -. as u get to a higher tier the threshold to get said + and - is harder. atleast thats how i would do, would make it simple and based off of match score.

From what people are saying is that you just move up slower the higher your tier on big wins. so it might be the same match score for a T1 moves them up less than a T3.

[Lyoto Machida]

Water Bear, on 22 September 2015 - 03:52 PM, said:

Really? Like who? I read in some other thread that there are supposed to be a lot of T1s but so far no one I've read has posted actually claiming it.

Not sure what threads you're reading but there's plenty of posted screenshots of Tier 1 guys...

http://mwomercs.com/...ur-tier-rating/

[Krivvan]

Water Bear, on 22 September 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

Well your unit members and friends might be bosses. I guess I was curious what the frequency was among the general population.

GMan is going to be doing a series of streams about getting a brand new account to Tier 1 starting later today.

[Wintersdark]

Mister Blastman, on 22 September 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

I really think they should go further and break them up my 'mech chassis. Back in the day when I tried hard there came a time I could never run my BJ-1 with AC/20 because it expected me to carry due to my overall medium Elo.

Sometimes we just want to have fun, right?

So I don't really want to go back to weight class alone, I'd rather do chassis model.

This.

I don't have a problem with dragging my tier down playing bad mechs and mechs I'm not good at (lights). But it's pretty unfair to those folks when, after sandbagging my tier rating in a week of playing lights (where I have an amazing 0.44 WLR) I climb back into an assault or medium and murder everyone.

And I can understand how the tiering will result in a lot of players who are score obsessed not just playing for a lot of fun when they're afraid it'll drag their rating down. As well, I predict this encouraging quite the push into Heavies and Assaults, as it's easier (for most) to score higher in those.

I'd really prefer at least per weight class tiering at least, preferably chassis tiering.

[El Bandito]

Krivvan, on 22 September 2015 - 05:54 PM, said:

GMan is going to be doing a series of streams about getting a brand new account to Tier 1 starting later today.

And he is probably gonna say how easy it is to reach T1, never mind that the average population of MWO is not on his skill level.