339 replies to this topic

[Ted Wayz]

GeneralArmchair, on 24 September 2015 - 11:27 PM, said:

Have you forgotten 11/5?

NEVER FORGET.

11/5 Never Forget...where have I seen that before?

Maybe the answer will catapult itself into my memory.

PGI should deliver finished products to people who pre-order for early access, not a collectible. If it was a collectible that I could admire in my mech bay knowing that it was bad but rare I would be okay as it would have different utility.

But buying early access for a product that turns out to be untested and unfinished? That is plain rubbish.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

After a bit of work with it its not turning out to be all too bad. Once these things are elited they won't be bad at all, once pgi buffs them then they might just be pretty great.

[Ted Wayz]

Dakota1000, on 25 September 2015 - 09:22 PM, said:

After a bit of work with it its not turning out to be all too bad. Once these things are elited they won't be bad at all, once pgi buffs them then they might just be pretty great. /sarcasm

Fixed it for you.

[Victorion]

Ted Wayz, on 25 September 2015 - 09:37 PM, said:

I'm mad that I didn't get the new Tier I meta mech that also looks cool, so I'm going around, disparagaing and generally taking a fat steamy dump on other players who are genuinely having fun with the chassis.

Fixed that for you.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Ted Wayz, on 25 September 2015 - 09:37 PM, said:

Fixed it for you.

Hey man it only took like 2 years for the Thunderbolt to go from dogshit tier to almost-as-good-as-clan tier.

Just be patient, i'm sure the game won't be dead by then.

[Oberost]

MischiefSC, on 25 September 2015 - 08:44 PM, said:

So yes. People will rail against the dedicated and persistent refusal of PGI to either get on the ball and get balancing fixed, like NOW, or use what tools we have (like quirks) to balance things as they are and fix it when the rebalance happens later.

This.

The problem is that as MischiefSC has pointed, PGI has give poor quirks because "hey, that's how the new rebalance works", but haven't said anything about WHEN this great rebalance is going to happen, so until then we have to deal with an underquirked mech in the current standards.

And yes, you can do quite well with it, but it's a pity that for the second time in a row (Resistance I and II) PGI didn't gave the IS a good mech. Not a godlike mech, just a good one.

[TheCharlatan]

Been trying it a bit... it's not terrible. It can actually be pretty good.
But it only works if people leave you alone. If anyone pushes you or focus fires you, you are too hot and too fragile (my god everything seems to hit CT, even when twisting like a madman) to survive.

Edited by TheCharlatan, 26 September 2015 - 12:17 AM.

[Bongo TauKat]

Why is it assumed that we are going to ***** about a new mech? I love my BKs and have to wear sunglasses when I alpha with them. Good enough for me.

An the buccaneer paint job is sweet.

[FireDog]

Not only are all the weapons low mounted, but with the stock engine (300) you can not step over an ankle sized obstruction. So much for PGI's redemption of a classic Battletech mech.

Hopefully with their hints of a purposely gimped mech in the Black Knight's intro due to loss of Star League Tech, it will get much better when the new tech is made available. (we pray)

But the low mounted weapons, that was a mortal sin. That fact alone will limit this mech to lessor tiers, and why PGI? Lasers have no recoil.... Why not mount them above/besides of the arms and higher on the chest vice the belly? Most of the Battletech art indicates so.

You lost a lot of sales, and limited the satisfaction of your customer base with this decision. You really do need to rethink your business model if you continue to make foolish decisions like this.

Edited by FireDog, 26 September 2015 - 07:05 AM.

[Ultimax]

TheCharlatan, on 26 September 2015 - 12:17 AM, said:

Been trying it a bit... it's not terrible.

This should have been the sales pitch.


"Pre-order the Black Knight, it's not terrible!"

[MeiSooHaityu]

Ultimatum X, on 26 September 2015 - 07:06 AM, said:

This should have been the sales pitch.


"Pre-order the Black Knight, it's not terrible!"

I'm pretty open, and I like giving mechs a benefit of a doubt, but no, this mech is terrible.

[Ted Wayz]

vnlk65n, on 25 September 2015 - 09:53 PM, said:

Hey man it only took like 2 years for the Thunderbolt to go from dogshit tier to almost-as-good-as-clan tier.

Just be patient, i'm sure the game won't be dead by then.

As long as my early access that I paid for extends until the mechs works, okay.

This game is dependent on people paying for early access for things. And up until now I have looked the other way. But if the Crab turns out like the BK I'm done paying for early access. It is not too much to expect PGI to get things right before they release them.

And by get it right I mean not OP but playable. Having owned and played every mech at some point I think I have fairly good judgement in this regards.

Victorion, on 25 September 2015 - 09:45 PM, said:

Fixed that for you.

Well played, 8/10 due to a bit too much anger.

[LordBraxton]

TheCharlatan, on 26 September 2015 - 12:17 AM, said:

Been trying it a bit... it's not terrible. It can actually be pretty good.
But it only works if people leave you alone. If anyone pushes you or focus fires you, you are too hot and too fragile (my god everything seems to hit CT, even when twisting like a madman) to survive.

He's right! I got top damage a couple times when nobody really shot at me and my team had the positional advantage most of the game!

So basically I got good scores with my 9MPL alpha, while being carried!

BK is terrible. PGI is terrible.

[Escef]

FireDog, on 26 September 2015 - 07:00 AM, said:

But the low mounted weapons, that was a mortal sin. That fact alone will limit this mech to lessor tiers, and why PGI? Lasers have no recoil.... Why not mount them above/besides of the arms and higher on the chest vice the belly? Most of the Battletech art indicates so.

The torso mounts on the Black Knight ARE higher than the arm mounts. Still rather low, though. However, most Black Knight art puts them pretty low.

Edited by Escef, 26 September 2015 - 11:02 AM.

[VirtualSmitty]

Ted Wayz, on 26 September 2015 - 07:29 AM, said:

As long as my early access that I paid for extends until the mechs works, okay.

This game is dependent on people paying for early access for things. And up until now I have looked the other way. But if the Crab turns out like the BK I'm done paying for early access. It is not too much to expect PGI to get things right before they release them.

And by get it right I mean not OP but playable. Having owned and played every mech at some point I think I have fairly good judgement in this regards.


Well played, 8/10 due to a bit too much anger.

The problems with the BK make me wish PGI would let early adopters play test the mechs we bought a little early on the test server to identify problems, like the squishy CT/backpack issues, before the mech goes live so PGI has an opportunity to fix things rather than have all the public negativity post launch. Internal play testing is either non-existent or incredibly bad to let some of these issues slip through the cracks.

Edited by Precentor Martial Jarcaddy, 26 September 2015 - 11:06 AM.

[Nightshade24]

LT. HARDCASE, on 25 September 2015 - 05:30 PM, said:

The delusion in this sentence is staggering.

So IS XL = cXL, if you're MLG PRO enough?

Flamer is ****, MG is ****, minor difference.

cXL = GODLIKE, iXL = death trap, same difference?

Not MLGpro to use XL engine. If anything slightly against it because the benifits of an XL engine is not part of the meta overall. you trade away side torso vulnerability for weight savings, This can be used for more speed, more firepower, more heatsinks, etc.

A few meta players often use armour rolling, in some of my XL IS mechs however I got the firepower to nearly completely obliterate the enemy even though I am a "big juicy CT not rolling at all target". it's hard to aim at something when you keep losing a quarter of your firepower every second and a half- that is the general firepower approach I got on some mechs I do such as jagermech, battlemaster, centurion AH, Black knight, etc.

My approach on ranged and supporters is usually more weapons/ ammo/ heatsinks to be discrete and/or bombard the enemy without getting hit much. This can be seen on some peoples medium mech builds such as instead of a single LRM 15 or a pair of 10's you got a pair of 15's and some lasers instead.

The other way to handle XL engine is go big or and go home- more specifically your team. This time the trade of is more of the lines of getting more heat efficiency and much higher speed. I often do this in some battlemasters, ravens, shadowhawks, catapults, and an atlas [once, it was entertaining having a very fast 100 tonner for awhile but I wanted to try more builds, eventually settled for a large STD engine minimalistic approach] and most of all my banshee, basically I use the speed for normal combat uses as you can imagine with agility related things as well as flanking/ scouting/ not dying by nascar but when enemies come close I got the speed to retreat or retreat fast enough to get to friendly territory. That lone banshee with a few more lasers then extra suddenly turned a few corners and now is 12 angry mechs starring back at you.


Meta? it's along the lines of 'hurrdurr, I do the same thing all the other pros do and put only 2% of all weapons in game on all my mechs, use the same modules, ignore 98% of the mechs in games existence as a threat of a viable platform and assign my laser vomit alpha key to everything"

Okay- that is a bit of an offensive lash out at some blind meta players out there. It's been a rough month and the meta players is a vent for me as they are the problem (not a negative one in some aspects, but still a problem which PGI needs to find a way to solve) for many things in this game, lack of diversity, lack of role warfare, lack of variety in gameplay (nascar on crimson... HPG.... caustic... etc... for eg), CW's flop, Quirk distribution being very odd (50% quirks? I do not care if it's for a locusts arm, a poor weapon like an LBX, or something turn rate, it is way to high for most things in game to be considered balanced... oh and then the lack of quirks on the timberwolf/ stormcrow that isn't lasers... I would not mind seeing more LBX 10's or UAC 20's on stormcrows or machine guns on timberwolfs).


It's a trade- you want to be more durable and have more space? or you want to have a 20%(depends on mech hitbox, total tons/ armour cap, quirks, engine cap and agility related quirks, etc etc etc) to die more often but able to kill things 30 to 70% faster (which can be better for some mechs as killing a thing before it damages you much is always nice). Does that mean I am less optimised and can't handle every map and enemy at any range effectively besides terra therma or a light mech? Sure. Does that mean I am dead weight? Of course not- it's a battletech game, there is a reason there is more then 1 weapon, 1 mech, 1 weight class, and 1 role. This may not be TT, but this game still has strong roots with it- the previous MW titles, and the overall BT universe. It's not a Mechassault, it's not a hawkin or counterstrike. It is not simplistic like TF2, Ace Combat, or Battlefield in what it does. I personally believe that all roles of BT are valid in MW: O;- that all mechs are worth it. How much they are worth it is questionable for some such as the Mist Lynx but I got strong faith the up coming infotech quirk pass would make it shine as what it was in lore- a scout mech. If it can pick up targets and spread information to friendly units with greater ease then a firestarter or arctic cheetah then it is not obsolete in my mind but I am getting a bit to far of topic now.

[Victorion]

MeiSooHaityu, on 26 September 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

I'm pretty open, and I like giving mechs a benefit of a doubt, but no, this mech is terrible.

#SoTerrible #BellyMounts #DOA







This was an incredibly fun match, right after another 500~ game that I unfortunately couldn't carry. (Had to fight 3 lights by myself with an open chest. Cored one, legged another, but then got taken down)

Heavy slug fest in River City. We hit the ground on the other side of the river in front of the citadel, rather then the land route to it. Most of our team was a bit slower, so it threw me in the light lance due to a speed tweaked XL350 BK clocking in at 84kph, which feels like a really nice balanced speed for this chassis. I'd personally like maybe some acceleration/deceleration quirks, after all it is a humanoid, but I can live with it for now.

I link up with our Assault lance, because I generally feel that's the best place for a BK, especially one using the R with 2x AMS. AMS has been wonderful this weekend due to the event and the inevitable lrm swarm. Fight starts out fairly text book with them attempting to poke from the silos to the "right" (our perspective) of the citadel. I take some early fire from a poor position by the gas storage pod looking things (globes?) and instead do what BK's do best: Corner poke from a building. By popping out and letting go of my 2x lpl 5x mlas, and due to the actually useful range quirks, I'm able to harass a lot of dangerous opponents including a TBR, who don't seem to be particularly keen on trading with me.

I don't know if it was the fact that my medium lasers were probably still doing decent damage, or just the psychological effect of getting hit by all of them, I don't really know for sure. I think its a bit of both. This doesn't last too long, however, because they move up a BJ, and he simply outclasses me in that position, being basically completely hull down and still able to bring his firepower to bare. Short story, I don't stick around, and my team wisely pushes "left" (once again, our perspective) around the citadel, underneath the bridge.

This ends up initially taking the enemy by a bit of surprise, and suddenly we're up a couple kills, two of them to me, a Hunchback and the BJ from earlier. I also pump a lot of damage into a couple other mechs, one of them being their TBR. Unfortunately, our push sort of stalls and it turns into a slug fest where both teams lose all but two of the mechs on either side.

On our side, we had me, with an open chest (pretty normal at this point in a game in a BK right now) and a really
messed up WHK who had been doing really good along side me. Whole different ball game on the enemy team. Basically freaking fresh EBJ dakka build of some kind, and an ECM HBR boating lasers.

We absolutely can't trade with the HBR, he's getting first shots off every time and we realize it's simply going to lose us the game. Moments prior, I had just watched the EBJ come around a corner and slaughter our 3rd remaining guy (putting us down to the WHK and me) and a put a few burns into him before retreating, taking some glancing fire to my arms. WHK was trading with the HBR a bit, and managed to put a few good PPC hits into him apparently. I manage to get a random chance angle on the HBR and blow his arm off, but he hits me good and it brings me lower then I wanted to be.

We realize we were going to lose at this rate, and retreat to the cap which was about 50 feet behind us to draw them in.

They make their big mistake not waiting for each other to move in simultaneously and we take the initiative, EBJ moves in first and we slam him, me putting an alpha, and the WHK finishing him off with two of his own. HBR moves in from the side and I take point hitting him with an alpha, and barely surviving one of his own, due to blowing his arm off earlier. WHK finishes him off too.

This thing was a scalpel, and having played a lot of HBK-4P, I felt very at home with lopping arms and side torsos off of basically anything I got within 500m's.

Was a great match, and while I love my TDR-5SS, and it would of performed similarly, I felt more "at home" in the BK in a city environment then I ever have in my TDR. Trying to weave in and out of 90 degree turns in a TDR can be a nightmare with its broad shoulders scraping and potentially getting caught on everything. With the BK it's a breeze and it feels like it was made for that type of environment.

You guys keep moaning and complaining at how bad it is. I'm going to keep having fun and making money.

Once again, before any yahoo tries to make it out I'm saying this is a GOOD mech or a COMPARABLE mech to everyone's favorite meta mechs, I'm not. I'm just making the point that a lot of you are completely blowing it out of proportion, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of you are theory crafting without ever having set foot in it.

Edited by Victorion, 27 September 2015 - 04:10 AM.

[Escef]

Yeah, so far the "winning" combination for the Black Knight appears to be 350 or larger XL engine, gobs of double sinks, armor it up, nothing with more range than a large pulse. Also, don't expect it to fully come to life until you've skilled it up some.

Even after the Oct 6th hitbox fix I don't expect the BLKs to be anything other than mediocre laser skirmishers.

[VirtualSmitty]

Victorion, on 27 September 2015 - 04:06 AM, said:

#SoTerrible #BellyMounts #DOA







This was an incredibly fun match, right after another 500~ game that I unfortunately couldn't carry. (Had to fight 3 lights by myself with an open chest. Cored one, legged another, but then got taken down)

Heavy slug fest in River City. We hit the ground on the other side of the river in front of the citadel, rather then the land route to it. Most of our team was a bit slower, so it threw me in the light lance due to a speed tweaked XL350 BK clocking in at 84kph, which feels like a really nice balanced speed for this chassis. I'd personally like maybe some acceleration/deceleration quirks, after all it is a humanoid, but I can live with it for now.

I've had some beast matches in Black Knights too. That doesn't make it a good mech, There's no getting around that it has broken hitboxes.

[Gas Guzzler]

Precentor Martial Jarcaddy, on 27 September 2015 - 05:00 AM, said:

I've had some beast matches in Black Knights too. That doesn't make it a good mech, There's no getting around that it has broken hitboxes.

Pretty much the gist of it.

Looking forward to the CT adjustment, hope they don't invalidate the XL engines in the process.