39 replies to this topic

[Sackdaddy]

DCLXVI, on 07 July 2012 - 05:45 PM, said:

You will never be a legend in a Jenner or Hunchback...

Are you high?

[Aeryk Corsaer]

I agree that the 'Mech choice should be of he player, for personal reasons of style and design, rather than any (pardon the term) power-gaming reasons. If they do balance the game so the "up ladder" approach is not the only valid approach, I will be extremely pleased. The pilot skill trees and such will hopefully be effective, among other aspects, to keep all 'Mech classes viable for the long term.

[Haldricht]

Get 'em all. Not likely to have another opportunity like this, after all.

[Karyudo ds]

Huntsman, on 07 July 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

Personally I’m not a big fan of the Atlas, and I’d take the Hunchback, (or possibly the Catapult if I could swap in SRMs that are any good in this game), but I’d rather not do so if I’m giving up a Cbill advantage nor be unable to use my founder mech because it didn’t have a logical spot on the existing lance. What arguments exist out there in favor of a mech other than the Atlas as being optimal? Do repair costs hinder the Atlas’s cbill acquisition value perhaps? Will tonnage limits often restrict the use of the Atlas?

No tonnage limits but you might run into heavier opposition eventfully. Repair costs would obviously be higher (more mech more money!). I'm pretty sure that you will be able to load SRMs onto a Catapult and I'm hopeful that they will be useful. I've never used them much in the previous games. My beef with the Atlas would be mostly in mobility though. I don't need Jenner speed but being really slow gets to me unless I actually have real support. In a PuG I generally don't like to be the guy that needs to much support because many people never notice that.

Bluten, on 07 July 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

As a long time veteran of MechWarrior you should know that they've stated that the previous trend of "arms race" and "bigger is better" will NOT be continued in MWO. An Assault may have its uses but is not the best choice.

See I just don't get this or why PGI ever brings it up. In the campaigns there's usually an arms race and the big bad assault mechs are great. In MW4 online I never used them. Never mobile enough for me, always went medium or heavy and most No Respawn games were filled with those plus a few assaults and lights but the assaults never had a clear advantage. Though some were still good. Don't get me wrong, but they weren't the most common.

[Mech Wrench]

Huntsman, on 07 July 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

Personally I’m not a big fan of the Atlas, and I’d take the Hunchback, (or possibly the Catapult if I could swap in SRMs that are any good in this game),

You know there will be streak SRM 2 missiles at launch? I plan on putting some in my founder catapult

[Jakob Knight]

Well, one of the things we've heard in the videos is that there will be considerations that make the Atlas not necessarily the unit for the job. For instance, there will be limited range on tactical information transfer, so a mech can't just sit at the start point if in Command. Also, the battles seem to be Objective driven instead of just kill-driven. You make the C-Bills by accomplishing mission goals, not killing enemy mechs.

One of those mission goals (from the videos) is to capture the enemy base. An Atlas needs to move to the enemy base in order to do this, or engage in combat. Yet, a faster mech can get around the Atlas and take the base before it can turn around and return in time to stop it. This is one of the roles of the Light and Medium mechs. Unless an Atlas is sitting at the base on Defense, it can't react fast enough to prevent an enemy victory. And if it -is- sitting, it isn't going to be able to support the team in taking the -enemy- base, so it's a catch-22.

Ultimately, the Atlas will need other mechs to accomplish what it cannot do. It isn't enough to just be able to do damage in MWO.

My own opinion from watching the videos.

Mech Wrench, on 07 July 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

You know there will be streak SRM 2 missiles at launch? I plan on putting some in my founder catapult

Note that there are conflicting reports about the number of hardpoints on a Catapult. You may end up with only one per arm, which would mean one Streak SRM2 each. Still, if that's what your preferences are, then go for it.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 07 July 2012 - 07:52 PM.

[likefunbutnot]

From the gameplay footage, I suspect that slower mechs just aren't going to spend as much time engaged as faster ones. If your lance/company is doing well, you'll need that much longer to be in a place where you can contribute, or if the squad is letting you set the pace you'll be ceding that much more ground to your opponents. If your squad is doing poorly, chances are you're going to wind up trying to engage two or three opponents at once and maneuverability will be an issue.

The firepower is unquestionably a big deal, but an assault mech that has to deal with a heavy in front of it and a light mech behind it is still going to be in a lot of trouble.

I'm sure that repairs are going to be priced to scale with the value of the mech. It shouldn't be hard to figure out a price point where there's a disincentive to take your Atlas out for a daily spin.

[Adm Awesome]

I picked up the Atlas but after downloading and trying out Mechwarrior 4, I'm really enjoying the catapult... I'm not sure which I want lol... might just get the legendary package and get them all. I think the catapult would be even more fun in MWO because your team mates (hopefully) aren't dumb as the AI in MW4 and won't run strait into the enemy in a raven and blow their faces up in 2 seconds, so you'll actually have people give the other team trouble while you support from afar with a barrage of missiles.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

I'm not trying to dissuade people from buying an Atlas. I'll enjoy mine myself. I'm simply stating that if you think Atlas is going to own the game you're going to be very disappointed with that selection choice. As to the guy that quoted me, you can somewhat predict which Mech to select because these 4 all have a distinct role and aren't really similar to each other.
Atlas=Big slow tank
Catapult=Long range missile launcher with legs
Hunchback=Fast moving brawler
Jenner=Scout

Adm Awesome, on 07 July 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

I picked up the Atlas but after downloading and trying out Mechwarrior 4, I'm really enjoying the catapult... I'm not sure which I want lol... might just get the legendary package and get them all. I think the catapult would be even more fun in MWO because your team mates (hopefully) aren't dumb as the AI in MW4 and won't run strait into the enemy in a raven and blow their faces up in 2 seconds, so you'll actually have people give the other team trouble while you support from afar with a barrage of missiles.

Catapult was going to be my choice then I realized I wanted them all and realized that Legendary is the best value by a sizable margin. Come Legendary like the rest of us. You won't regret it come release when you have +4 extra garage slots and 4 Mechs with the C-Bill boost.

[Bearcut]

Atlas is a big slow target...
Yeah it can take alot of punishment, but it has too.

One of the reasons I didn't buy the elite package (legendary just too much for my income) is because I really couldn't decide which mech to take....

Heavy has always been my favorite class, simply because I like the mix of firepower and mobility. But I dont want a catapult to just sit back in. I want to brawl. If it was the K2 variant id be all over it.
I really really want a grasshopper in this game.
But so far all my favorite announced mechs are non-founder's mechs. I like the hunchback and jenner, but really I would prefer a commando/cicada or a centurion.

I know I still get that one free mech on top of my founders but I just have a nagging feeling I'll regret my decision.

Edited by Bearcut, 07 July 2012 - 08:25 PM.

[Adm Awesome]

Bluten, on 07 July 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

I'm not trying to dissuade people from buying an Atlas. I'll enjoy mine myself. I'm simply stating that if you think Atlas is going to own the game you're going to be very disappointed with that selection choice. As to the guy that quoted me, you can somewhat predict which Mech to select because these 4 all have a distinct role and aren't really similar to each other.
Atlas=Big slow tank
Catapult=Long range missile launcher with legs
Hunchback=Fast moving brawler
Jenner=Scout



Catapult was going to be my choice then I realized I wanted them all and realized that Legendary is the best value by a sizable margin. Come Legendary like the rest of us. You won't regret it come release when you have +4 extra garage slots and 4 Mechs with the C-Bill boost.

I most likely will, I hate spending money as a college student because I know I may need it for emergencies or just to save to pay off loans later, but I really don't buy many games so I think I can splurge this once. I just bought the Elite really quick so I could get a better chance at going into Beta, but I don't have a doubt that I'm gonna upgrade to legendary before the deal is over.

Bearcut, on 07 July 2012 - 08:24 PM, said:

Atlas is a big slow target...
Yeah it can take alot of punishment, but it has too.

One of the reasons I didn't buy the elite package (legendary just too much for my income) is because I really couldn't decide which mech to take....

Heavy has always been my favorite class, simply because I like the mix of firepower and mobility. But I dont want a catapult to just sit back in. I want to brawl. If it was the K2 variant id be all over it.
I really really want a grasshopper in this game.
But so far all my favorite announced mechs are non-founder's mechs. I like the hunchback and jenner, but really I would prefer a commando/cicada or a centurion.

I know I still get that one free mech on top of my founders but I just have a nagging feeling I'll regret my decision.

It's not so easy to criticize the Mechs like that with this type of game, yeah you could in the other single player games because your AI was so bad that you were pretty much on your own, but this game is meant for team work, it's like looking at a Tank in any MMORPG and saying that he sucks because he can hardly dish out damage or something. It's a team game, The Atlas will be amazing for what it can contribute to the team, that is the "big slow target" that scares the **** out of everyone so much that they're all gonna focus on him, while they don't notice the scout running up behind them, tagging them with a beacon so the support can nuke the crap out of them. I really am interested in the Awesome though, just like the Atlas, being a huge intimidating wall, except he needs to be on a hill somewhere sniping, so not only do they have to take a bunch of punishment just to get to him, but all your teammates will be wrecking shop on them as they're trying to make their way to you.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Adm Awesome, on 07 July 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

I most likely will, I hate spending money as a college student because I know I may need it for emergencies or just to save to pay off loans later, but I really don't buy many games so I think I can splurge this once. I just bought the Elite really quick so I could get a better chance at going into Beta, but I don't have a doubt that I'm gonna upgrade to legendary before the deal is over.

60$+ purchases are hard for me to swallow too, and this will probably be the only pre-order I've ever spent more than 120$ on. I really avoid full price games too, feeling that 60$ itself is too much for most video games. I pre-ordered both MWO and GW 2 and those were the first 2 pre-orders or even 60$ game purchases I've made in years. But as a person that spent hundreds of hours on MW 2 before even becoming a teenager, I'm gambling and hoping that a resurrection to this series will be worth it. I also know that I'll want every Mech the day I'm able to play the game so Legendary is the best choice.

[Jakob Knight]

Bearcut, on 07 July 2012 - 08:24 PM, said:

Heavy has always been my favorite class, simply because I like the mix of firepower and mobility. But I dont want a catapult to just sit back in. I want to brawl. If it was the K2 variant id be all over it.

You can convert the C1 to a version very similar to the K2, with the only difference being that the PPCs would be torso-mounts instead of Arm-mounts, and that you would not have the Machine Guns (though you could mount a single SRM2 on one of the arms for similar firepower). Otherwise, it's pretty much the same 'mech.

[Adm Awesome]

Bluten, on 07 July 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

60$+ purchases are hard for me to swallow too, and this will probably be the only pre-order I've ever spent more than 120$ on. I really avoid full price games too, feeling that 60$ itself is too much for most video games. I pre-ordered both MWO and GW 2 and those were the first 2 pre-orders or even 60$ game purchases I've made in years. But as a person that spent hundreds of hours on MW 2 before even becoming a teenager, I'm gambling and hoping that a resurrection to this series will be worth it. I also know that I'll want every Mech the day I'm able to play the game so Legendary is the best choice.

I was so hyped up for GW2 like... a year ago, but with MWO I forgot all about it. I definitely won't have time nor the money for two games, especially if I get the legendary pack for MWO. What was really appealing to me about GW2 was the ever changing world and how what you do as a player can and will change the actual world... well after reading dev blog #1 I realized that MWO will pretty much have the same deal, so win-win

[Scouten]

the light mech looks the most fun to me as i prefer speed/mobility > armour/weapons

[Huntsman]

Bluten, on 07 July 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

As a long time veteran of MechWarrior you should know that they've stated that the previous trend of "arms race" and "bigger is better" will NOT be continued in MWO. An Assault may have its uses but is not the best choice. In reality they will all have advantages and disadvantages. Due to skilled enemies simply circle strafing you, I doubt most will prefer an Assault at all. I predict Mediums+Heavies being the most popular types due to a more balanced mixture of stats.

Yes, I know they've said this, but I'm skeptical as to how thoroughly this will be true. As I've said, the other classes will have their place, but most often a fight will come down to a close to mid range slugging match unless everyone else brought LRMs and it turns into a sniping contest, but I think this will be less common, and if it does happen the Atlas can accomodate such a fight with gauss rifles, ER lasers, and LRMs of its own.

-1 the Jenner can scout and in a fight they have speed to help keep them alive, but in the end they are toast in a fight versus a larger foe given similar pilot skill levels as their speed can only help them for so long compared to the fact that their armor is paper and their weaponery is negigable. Perhaps you really will reap an absolute heap of Cbills strictly from scouting, but even in the unlikely case that scouting is as cbill acquisition effective as combat, how useful are you really to a team since a team really only needs one of these guys at most.

-2 the Hunchback is going to pretty much be either a sniper with a Guass rifle (and the Atlas can perform this better) or a bonzai mech with a heavy AC, wading into a fight as a shock trooper and dishing out damage higher than would be expected from a mech of its weight class. Essentially it performs similar roles as the Atlas but with somewhat better speed attempting to take the place of significantly worse armor and weaponery. I don't see this option making any sense at all despite that it's my favorite looking mech of the bunch.

-3 the Catapults support capability is niche as it won't have value in areas with alot of cover or in close quarters. In close quarters it could probably load out for CQB with SRMs, but it will be no match for an Atlas in this case and SRMs kinda suck against strafing light mechs too. It's because of these facts that the Catapult can be sort of ackward to use. If a map isn't distinctly long range or short range then you have to guess as to how the battle will unfold, and if you guess wrong you've either got LRMs with no targets or SRMs in a sniping war. Even if you take SRMs in close quarters, your effectiveness is limited to medium mechs and other heavy mechs that are slighter than yourself or those that are poorly loaded our with crappy pilots.

The Atlas can be a shock trooper and a sniper, performing the roles of the catapult to some extent, and dominates the role of the Hunchback. Only the Jenner can do something the Atlas cannot, scout, and while this is useful, it's a role whose usefulness is limited, and it remains to be seen how rewarding.

It seems to me that the only arguement offsetting the greater value of the Atlas might just be how much is costs to repair. It would be nice to get some hard data from the devs so we can make a wise selection.

Edited by Huntsman, 08 July 2012 - 05:45 AM.

[UglySniper]

i was going to make a post but Huntsman pretty much said everything i was thinking.

im all Atlas, all the way

[Skurvy]

I believe one aspect of the founder package that has not been fully reviewed is the weapon hardpoint distributions. While the mechs provided will also have a similar counterpart made available for those who did not opt for a founder mech, there has not been confirmation that the variant (and thus the weapon hardpoints) will be the same between the two.

[Sgt Bones]

Originally, I just took a hunchback, but then I thought about when WoT had a preorder deal and I only 2 of the 3 available, and regretted not having that 3d tank...so I went legendary here and took them all. They all have a place, they are all good, and I feel I will be able to make a better choice concerning future mechs based on having one of each type as a premium, where losing won't hurt so bad.

Of course, having played all the mech games over the years, I know already I will end up in mediums and fast heavies, but we will see!

[l33tworks]

Bluten, on 07 July 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

As a long time veteran of MechWarrior you should know that they've stated that the previous trend of "arms race" and "bigger is better" will NOT be continued in MWO. An Assault may have its uses but is not the best choice. In reality they will all have advantages and disadvantages. Due to skilled enemies simply circle strafing you, I doubt most will prefer an Assault at all. I predict Mediums+Heavies being the most popular types due to a more balanced mixture of stats.

So yes go Elite and pick Atlas if big+slow suit you, but know that here it will not give you the dominance in the battlefield that it did in previous games. Perhaps it will in the newb games where I'm sure enemies will stand around stationary or target the tank Atlas first but more skilled enemies down the road will simply run away from you and target your allies first with cover blocking your LoS to them. They will be able to take down your allies first while staying away your extremely slow Mech. I'm not saying an Assault is useless by any means, but as I've said, it won't have the field dominance you saw in prior games. In prior games you basically fought in the open and exchanged shots until someone died. Speed couldn't be properly implemented due to engine and environment limitations. Here in 2012 those limitations from 1990-2002 won't exist.

I'm actually worried this man is spot on because I have the same foresight. I enjoy the assault play style the most but I can see it being a less rewarding and frustrating hinderance over the what I suspect will the more common medium/faster play styles. I actually don't mind a big increase in upkeep and more of a grind as long as the atlas is OP and badass on the battlefield. I mean that's why assault it's built the way it is isn't it?

Steiner fist bump for those who expect things will Pan out like this
m.youtube.com/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DpZjYp3qd7dE&v=pZjYp3qd7dE&gl=US

lol actually I think we will be the cannon fodder. All the atlasses will get slaughtered easily

Edited by l33tworks, 08 July 2012 - 06:49 AM.