53 replies to this topic

[Elizander]

sycocys, on 24 September 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

Also false because I'll end up on 10-20+ loss streaks because I rng multiple team mates that can't muster 100 damage match after match.

It's for winning, not losing. D:

[sycocys]

Elizander, on 24 September 2015 - 11:30 AM, said:

It's for winning, not losing. D:

It's just pure rng. If you are lucky enough to not pull enough bad teams to drop you'll have better matches and far more opportunity to let your high alphas loose.

If you are unlucky you'll keep rolling crap time after time and be as frustrated as I am with your score being reliant on players that by some magic managed to pass the tutorial.

"IF" it was balanced and not pure rng - you'd lose to a certain point that you could be running a locust with a single small laser and pull 12 kills and start going up or sit there. It's simply not how its working though. Going down "should" work the exact same way as going up, but its really all just rng draws unless you are playing group queue.

Edited by sycocys, 24 September 2015 - 11:42 AM.

[Paperdog]

Horrid teams so far, all just steamroll. Assaults left behind, does not provide target lock, shitton of ECM clanmechs in the enemy team etc.
This PSR thing went from so-so to bad. 1 or 2 awesome games with well balanced teams, then imbecil teammatess for the next 10-15 maches.
And C-bill earnings still awful even with premium time.

[Milocinia]

I don't understand what the hate is about PSR.

I'm confident but fair about my own piloting abilities. I look at it in an objective way, that there will always be compmetaminmaxers better than me but I can stubbornly hold my own and put down some pretty hellish performances sometimes.

Once it was known there were 5 tiers, I predicted I would be somewhere in the middle of T2. Lo and behold I'm literally slap bang in the middle of T2.

I don't care what you, PGI or anyone else thinks. I'm proud of where I am. I never try and pad my stats in the group queue, I roll 100% solo with the pugtastic people of this game. Whilst I may use high tier chassis, I certainly don't run meta builds with them. Most of the time there are 2 or 3 weapon types. No ALL TEH LAZORS here that's for sure.

Mid T2, pure PUG, non-meta gamer... AND PROUD!

Now, can we get my forum badge all rainbowed up? Cheers.

[RussianWolf]

Auton, on 24 September 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

RussianWolf if you are really 2744/2614 (win ratio of 1.05) and Tier 5 then you must be getting lower match scores (even if you are making money and xp). From what I have seen people with a win ratio over 1 are in Tier 4, 1.10-1.30 in Tier 3, 1.30-1.50 Tier 2. So I would expect you are High Tier 5 and you just need some wins with a high match score to push you into Tier 4.

Now I do see Assists help a lot so all those LRM boats on winning teams will artifically boost there rating because of all the assists they had and damage (giving a higher match score).

Those are the real numbers for me at the moment. And yes, I'm only the higher side of Tier 5 (forget how far, but better than 3/4s)

I'm mocking it more than anything. I only had a chance for 1 game yesterday, took out my 0XP with 3ERLL and racked up 800+ dmg and a match score of over 500 (both were tops in the match and nearly double the next closest). Felt kinda bad afterwards, but what can I do since PGI thinks this is where I belong.

On a side note, that got my 0XP to master level, so time to switch to another unloved mech.

Edited by RussianWolf, 24 September 2015 - 12:22 PM.

[Telmasa]

Fenrisulvyn, on 24 September 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

"By using match score, it's not just about damage - lots of spotting, lots of assists, and anything else that can boost match score matters"
Its mostly about damage. Scouting, spotting, flanking, baiting, etc are significantly undercounted.
If I take a scout light and do a good job, I get screwed
If I take a high alpha assault and do a mediocre job I get rewarded

Alright, I'll acknowledge there may be problems with match score (and thus indirectly PSR) - but I would hope/assume the balance overhaul will address the issue. It's easier to buff "light role" stuff when there aren't overperforming/superquirked light 'mechs running around skewing the numbers, right?

replies to the following in bold comic sans cause it's easier for me:

sycocys, on 24 September 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

1. Its not about close matches - its about competitive matches. (Agreed.) There is a difference. Loading up half of one team with incompetent players and the other side with people that have an understanding of the game is just a recipe for pure failure. (That does sound wrong, but hasn't been my personal experience. I would first doubt how intimately you know other player's abilities, frankly. And this problem was/would-be way worse with basic ELO-based MM.)

2. Given that our rankings are based heavily upon the performance of the other 11 players of our team - our PSR is at the whim of the rng of the MM, if you consistently get bad rolls there you get drug down no matter what your performance level is - ie it will never actually balance out for most people because they will get push down to a point of no return simply for the misfortune of having other people play poorly. (Nah. "RNG" MM wouldn't even use ELO. You'd definitely be seeing problems far more obvious and more often if we did have an RNG MM. I will say that even the RNG MM isn't as bad as what WoT does...but I digress.)

At any rate, someone has to win and someone has to lose, even at the bottom of tier 5 - it's just not possible that you'll be losing more often than winning such that you'd fall to a "point of no return". If your performance is consistently higher than other players, your PSR will go up over time. That's all there is to it.

sycocys, on 24 September 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

At the same time false because I'll end up on 10-20+ loss streaks because I rng multiple team mates that can't muster 100 damage match after match. It's just pure rng from the MM, if you have sht draws that's what you get, some people get the flip side of the coin. None of it really does any good for actually putting people in the proper tiers.

Plenty of those scores show up no matter what tier you're at, that's not going to affect your PSR in the long run if you consistently play well. Everybody, even Phil with max tier 1 PSR, has losing streaks.

You're making PSR more complicated than it actually is, honestly.

sycocys, on 24 September 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

It's just pure rng. If you are lucky enough to not pull enough bad teams to drop you'll have better matches and far more opportunity to let your high alphas loose.
If you are unlucky you'll keep rolling crap time after time and be as frustrated as I am with your score being reliant on players that by some magic managed to pass the tutorial.
"IF" it was balanced and not pure rng - you'd lose to a certain point that you could be running a locust with a single small laser and pull 12 kills and start going up or sit there. It's simply not how its working though. Going down "should" work the exact same way as going up, but its really all just rng draws unless you are playing group queue.

Okay, it's time to stop with "RNG".
I am deeply familiar with what "RNG" is, what it feels like, and what it feels like when it's rigged against you as a player. (How do I know? I played WoT for 3+ years. End of story.) MW:O does not have this RNG problem, and with PSR the MM has the least problem with "RNG" that I've seen in any team elimination game I've played.

I get that you are frustrated, but I really think that you - and anybody else frustrated with PSR - are frustrated because of misconceptions, often thanks to repeated misinformation by other players from reddit or whatnot & also because PGI didn't anticipate the need for an in-depth PSA & Q&A about what PSR is & is not.

I'd advise to take a breather, come back with an open mind, and don't trust the hearsay of other players - try to find information straight from the horse's mouth, as it were, like my pastebin in the original post. PSR is alot simpler, and alot less to worry about, than most players are giving it credit for. It's just a matchmaking tool that's better than raw ELO.

Ultimately I think what everybody wants is CW overhaul to happen, along with Solaris mode where we can have a true ladder ranking system.

[sycocys]

I am telling you EXACTLY what I am experiencing with this after I got rolled down a tier from the last events nonsense. Not what people on reddit are experiencing, not rehashing what other people are experiencing - this is entirely the experience that the game has shown me.

Not making this **** up about pulling 2,4,6 players that can't muster 100 damage even in assaults on my team in 8-9/10 games. I really, really wish that were a f'n joke I was trying to pull over on you but it isn't. That is 100% my experience with this game currently.

Yes it absolutely is frustrating because it simply should not be happening. It should be balancing out but my experience is showing that it simply is just rng luck to have it balance out, because so far it really hasn't matter how many matches I've played I still get "lucky" and manage to get slotted with the team with the vastly lower skilled teammates in the grand majority of my matches.

Truly happy that you have much better luck with the draws, but its kind of sad that you can't seem to comprehend that other players don't have that same luck.

[Telmasa]

I get frustrated by what other players do, who doesn't? I'm just trying to make clear that happens nowhere you go in tier - that that is not thanks to PSR; or that you oughtn't worry so much about it, because your own consistent performance will make up for it and naturally progress over time, in spite of having to struggle more as a result of those teammates.

I think part of it may be that there's not *quite* as many players in queue, especially around certain hours, as would be ideal for PSR to have a more obvious effect.

You aren't alone, and neither is anybody else - all you can really do, as I do, is focus on personal performance and do what you can about the team in general; or I suppose other folks might suggest grouping up with other players awhile.

I'm just very leery of using the term "RNG" to describe luck of the draw when it comes to encountering random assortments of other players, because of my experience with World of Tanks...which still gives me shudders.

[sycocys]

It is very RNG in my experience, that's all I can really tell you.

The problem is that it's not balancing out -because- of this. Decent scores don't hold ground/are very, very hard to obtain at that when you continually draw these teams match after match after match.

And its not even taken into any account what so ever - there's no "You pulled 400 damage and 2 kills even when 4 of your assaults couldn't muster 100 damage together. Maybe you shouldn't go down in PSR as a result of their terrible performance.".

Its just - "you lose and you didn't get a match score of 350+? Go down." Compound that with poor draws 8-9/10 games and what you get is a system that fails you because other players can't be bothered to pay attention to the game and fire on target a few times.

I can honestly understand why players felt they were still in elo hell if this is what T4 has been like for them since the introduction of PSR - because this is absolutely nothing like the matches I was seeing before the event's crazy string of losses.

[ShinVector]

sycocys, on 23 September 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

It actually has quite a lot to do with your team unless you are pulling 8-12 kills every match.

8-12 is bit much but 4-6 kills is very much possible.

[sycocys]

ShinVector, on 24 September 2015 - 10:13 PM, said:

8-12 is bit much but 4-6 kills is very much possible.

Again the difference being the tier you are in and being offered far more competitive matches to even allow those sorts of performances. You don't have to play to carry 4-6 players if everyone is putting up a couple hundred damage at the minimum, but if your draws are pitting players that can't put up 50-60 damage against players that put up 2-300+ across from them then there is a problem.

[Ted Wayz]

Telmasa, on 23 September 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

@ Deathlike: I can't totally agree with that assessment. Yes, the number of games matter, and statistics being statistics, things will average out better & more accurately the larger the sample size in question - which here is the number of games played.

But that doesn't really mean PSR is just a measure of grind.

Approximately 2500 matches.

Approximately 7 months.

Not a grind.

Mostly dependent on how 11 others play.

Okay.

[Ted Wayz]

sycocys, on 25 September 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

Again the difference being the tier you are in and being offered far more competitive matches to even allow those sorts of performances. You don't have to play to carry 4-6 players if everyone is putting up a couple hundred damage at the minimum, but if your draws are pitting players that can't put up 50-60 damage against players that put up 2-300+ across from them then there is a problem.

How does this apply to Tier 4 again?

[Mycrus]

Alistair Winter, on 23 September 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

This is the flaw of the PSR, I think. Also, light mechs do not get the same match scores as heavies and assaults on average. Someone who plays exclusively light mechs is going to have a lower PSR than someone who plays exclusively assault mechs, assuming they are roughly equally skilled. Getting 1000 dmg with an assault mech is something a lot of people can do. Getting 1000 dmg with a light mech is something far fewer people can do.

Speak for yourself i do better with lights