51 replies to this topic

[Zordicron]

Point and click..... I just did 50 dmg, or, I just did 40 to one comp.

The lasers are ez mode. There is nothing really, besides putting the "X" over the target and pushing mouse 1.

Heat? meh, heat just means you can only do 80-100 dmg before you need a few seconds to cool back down, which of course works anyway as you are in cover for a few seconds between shots anyway.

it's like twin goose vs boated AC2's. Sure, the DPS of like, 5 or 6 AC2 is superior. but there is no cover time, there is heat, there is ammo explosions, whatever.

DPS is a mega fail in this game for a battletech based game, mega alpha shot to blow out a mechs ST in one or two shots is king on a throne so high you will never touch it. Lasers, are the poster child for mega alphas and ease of use.


As for range, pfah, range is only a consideration for stuff like SRM and AC20's and SPL. All else, the map design doesnt really allow for a straight up sniper fight(which is both good and bad) and most battles end up within 350M of each other anyway.

IS LPL has to be the easiest to use weapon in the game ever.

IMO, heatscale changes could stop this, otherwise a massive nerf to lasers like triple burn times would knock them down. Otherwise, boat up, or shut up, thats the way it is.

[Kiiyor]

Weaselball, on 23 September 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:

They're hitscan weapons. No travel time. No lead time. No projectiles you have to worry about slipping behind or just past an enemy.

If you can keep your pointer over a mech and you can click your mouse button, you can hit with a laser.

I think THAT is what makes them so good.

That, and the fact that there's generally much less face time involved with lasers than other weapon systems. Dump your damage, get back to cover, minimal exposure to return fire. PPC's are an exception here, but they're generally much harder to use than lasers, IMHO.

[Karl Marlow]

Much as I hate it coming from a TT perspective I've started trading out my PPCs for ERLL and LPL as well. I suppose there is something Marik themes about that but I love PPCs in TT.

[Evan20k]

LordKnightFandragon, on 23 September 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

Yeah...I have tried the 4x CERPPC build on my Warhawk. Compared to the LPL build it just doesnt compare. PPCs, despite being PPD, just simply are to hot for the dmg they deal, travel to slow to be used at thier appropriate range and between quirks and this nad that, they pale in comparison to lasers.

Shoddy terrain collision is just another nail in thier coffin.

I've been so grasping at this straw just trying to find someway to make an effective Warhawk in some way resembling its canon role. The best I've come up with is 1 ERPPC and 2 UAC10s which really isn't close to the original at all. (But it's pretty powerful PPFLD and DPS at the same time!)

[Cyborne Elemental]

Lasers are good, because all the other alternative weapons.. aren't, for one reason or another. (Paul)
Except Gauss, which is also click and point adventure

[Krivvan]

PGI's still afraid of projectile weapon dominance and they remain somewhat overnerfed. It's as if they're allergic to doing constant tweaks to find a good balance instead of just overreacting on balance changes.

[FupDup]

Krivvan, on 23 September 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

PGI's still afraid of projectile weapon dominance and they remain somewhat overnerfed. It's as if they're allergic to doing constant tweaks to find a good balance instead of just overreacting on balance changes.

B-B-B-B-BUT PPFLD KILLED MY FAMILY AND TOOK MY WIFE, ATE ALL MY BABIES!

[627]

I still don't understand why it is so hard to tweak some values in baby steps. PPC Heat is 10, so down with it to 9 or 9.5 and let it go for two weeks.
This little change will break nothing but people will try it out and give feedback. And after two weeks, you either go back to 10 because it didn't work, you stay at it because it is fine or you go further that route.

That is not rocket science and it doesn't take longer than these big balance swings 2 times in a year.

[Chuck Jager]

cermlas range and damage are at the 300-900 (w mods) sweet spot for engagement and weigh 1 ton. The duration and heat "nerfs" are a joke unless somebody puts one in every slot.

This weapon can be stacked so easily that you do not need the full burn time to get out the incredible damage. If you fire it while charging a Gauss, it is easy to bypass the negative of the Gauss charge.

As the OP said, I will chains fire my cermals and paint the side of an object and then alpha if I see it turn red.

[Kotzi]

No aim needed, no ammo needed just build the biggest engine possible and you wont have to care for heat because you can run away.

[Elizander]

Ultimatum X, on 23 September 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

Ballistics & PPC builds tend to cap out an alpha of 35 to 40 at the high end before things like extreme tonnage or ghost heat show up.

This is the painful part but it comes with PPFLD. On my King Crab I got it up to 45 by combining a Gauss, ER PPC and an AC/20. Sound stupid but I'm Tier 3. People just stare at me for some reason.

Edited by Elizander, 23 September 2015 - 11:03 PM.

[monk]

LordKnightFandragon, on 23 September 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

Lasers are best because they offer the best of every world and have no worthwhile negative.

PPCs: Slow traveling, Hot, slower Cooldown, heavy, big
ACs: big, heavy, slow velocity, ammo dependant
LRMs: Inaccurate, heavy, slow, big, ammo dependant
Lasers: Light, small, long range, no ammo dependancy, good dmg/heat ratio. Hit scan vs velocity.

Yeah...I have tried the 4x CERPPC build on my Warhawk. Compared to the LPL build it just doesnt compare. PPCs, despite being PPD, just simply are to hot for the dmg they deal, travel to slow to be used at thier appropriate range and between quirks and this nad that, they pale in comparison to lasers.

Shoddy terrain collision is just another nail in thier coffin.

This. But there's one more facet that I haven't seen explicitly stated, even though it's inferred a lot. If you miss your shot with a laser you adjust and still get some portion to most of the damage dealt to the enemy. With all the other weapons it's a hit or miss scendario. You don't get "some" damage dealt. Because of this issue and the fact that the heat issues of lasers (the only possible downside without new mechanics) are basically negligible in the current game design, there is little reason to ever bring anything but lasers.

Laser based weaponry needs to either be less efficient to counter all its advantages, or we need to add more to the game that allows players to make laser dependent mechs less effective (flamers that actually work, etc.)

[Kotzi]

Reflective Armor.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

IMHO there are almost no 'bad' weapons in the game (save for MGs and flamers). The problem is lasers are just better in every possible category. Whether you consider range or damage potential or 'universality', lasers just always are on top.

With so many core advantages they provide (no ammo, hitscan, boating potential, alpha potential, ghost heat not working properly), there is not much else to be done than nerf them somehow, using those incremental steps PGI stopped using after some whiners started competing for Oscar Award in Drama Category when they've touched TBRs and SCRs* Fixing ghost heat would be a nice start.

I wouldn't go for buffs to other weapons, save MGs and flamers. Mechs die like flies already.


*Btw, I am completely positive it is our (players') fault that PGI started their "global overhauls" again, thx to those turbowhiners who couldn't hande best mechs in the game being brought in line a bit.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 23 September 2015 - 11:31 PM.

[Vellron2005]

Lasers are good becouse they offer easy to hit mechanics, direct fire damage, at low tonnage cost, and no ammo requirements.

They do however require a bunch of heatskings, that are kinda like ammo when tonnage is concerned, but you can't run out of lasers like you can run out of AC ammo..

Also, its LAZERS! The quintessential SY-FI weapon. If I wanted to shoot cannons, I't play World of Tanks..

The only downside of lasers is that you can blow yourself up from overusing them.. but this is also a nice mechanic becouse you have to worry about the heat.. Unlike AC ammo, that you can run out of.. with lasers, you can run out of interals

[Gas Guzzler]

They are good now, because the community didn't want PPCs to be good.

[TheCharlatan]

Lasers have the best hit-reg.
/thread.

[Evan20k]

Tangibly related to this topic, but I want to hear it from veterans who've been playing since ghost heat was first implemented? What was the thought process behind the "Fire 2 AC20s at the same time, and you get shut down" decision? 2 Gauss for 30 damage is okay at any distance, but 40 damage at close distances is crossing some sort of line? Did the x2 AC20 Jagermech that was apparently popular back then really rustle people's jimmies that badly?

[Black Ivan]

Lasers are the weapons with the least disadvantages in game.
They don't have travel time ACs annd PPCs, are not effected by ECM and don't suffer so much from bad hit detection.

All weapons suffer from invisible walls.

[Vlad Ward]

Lasers aren't good. They're just less bad than super-nerfed projectiles. And Clans/Quirks/crazy high ghost heat thresholds means you can boat lots of them while 2xAC/20s are still a no-no.

Apparently getting killed over a 0.75s burn feels better than getting killed instantly to the TTK crowd.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 24 September 2015 - 01:05 AM.