59 replies to this topic

[Lorian Sunrider]

MechaBattler, on 24 September 2015 - 08:48 AM, said:

You can blame all the people in the quirks feedback threads for making them think that we all hate the quirks. Paul especially seems to be under the impression that the weapon quirks were the wrong idea. I really hope the feedback from their first pass changed their minds about that.

Some mechs were overquirked for sure. Hell I would even say my beloved Grid Iron was. However, it doesn't make sense to wipe them all out either.

We'll have to see what the Great Rebalancing™ brings to the table in the log run.

[Yellonet]

Lorian Sunrider, on 24 September 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

This is literally the worst idea I've ever seen.

Why in gods name would we make this game pay to win? So whoever pays more money wins more? No **** that. **** that with a flame thrower attached to an orbital nuke with a built in tag laser and the target narc'd.

You saying this game isn't P2W already? If only most of the time.

Edited by Yellonet, 24 September 2015 - 09:11 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Yellonet, on 24 September 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

You saying this game isn't P2W already? If only most of the time.

No, it's not P2W.

If it was my $1600 would have bought me at least T2.

Edited by cdlord, 24 September 2015 - 09:11 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

visionGT4, on 24 September 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

The moral superiority of IS drivers will be enhanced and the easy mode gimps can contribute something positive to everyones MWO experience through increased funding for PGI. And for comp play you, if you wanna be at the top level ya gots to pay.. as is the way of the world.

How is this not a perfect win:win scenario for everyone?

um... Pay To Win? You've heard of it, yes?

[Yellonet]

cdlord, on 24 September 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

No, it's not P2W.

If it was my $1600 would have bought me at least T2.

P2W doesn't really guarantee success, it's more of giving you advantages over anyone not paying.
Consumables is a P2W part of the game for instance.
Getting super OP mechs for money only is P2W.
The fact that they are released for C-bills later doesn't change anything.

It's quite smart actually, make the game F2P, but make certain parts of it P2W, that way it puts pressure on those not paying to start paying to get abilities on par with the guys that are paying....

Edited by Yellonet, 24 September 2015 - 09:18 AM.

[Lorian Sunrider]

Yellonet, on 24 September 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

P2W doesn't really guarantee success, it's more of giving you advantages over anyone not paying.
Consumables is a P2W part of the game for instance.
Getting super OP mechs for money only is P2W.
The fact that they are released for C-bills later doesn't change anything.

Consumables can be bought for c-bills.

The fact that they are released for c-bills later does change everything. I'm not paying real money to get them and I can still get them.

If you are arguing the grind is ridiculous well you won't find me arguing.

Does this game have P2W elements? Yeah sure some. But you don't have to put a penny into this game if you don't want to. The only things that are permanently behind a pay wall are champions and hero mechs. And you aren't missing a whole lot in that regard really.

If this was a $60 dollar game then yeah those P2W elements would be more worrying. But its not. Its a free to play game and the company has to make money. While I still argue that their packages prices are obscene, this game isn't P2W. It's pay to save grinding. Thats it really.

Edited by Lorian Sunrider, 24 September 2015 - 09:20 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

It's coming.

Bounty Hunter Timber Wolf Hero, laser vomit and ECM, + JJs if they let you switch omni-pods.

[Yellonet]

Lorian Sunrider, on 24 September 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

Consumables can be bought for c-bills.

Not the better ones.

Lorian Sunrider, on 24 September 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

The fact that they are released for c-bills later does change everything. I'm not paying real money to get them and I can still get them.

During the time that a very good mech is available only for MC or real money players that pay do have an advantage.

If older mechs were as good as new ones this wouldn't be true as new mechs would only bring variety, not making older mechs out-dated. At least for the Clans this seems to be the case.
It will be interesting to compare the how the mechs in the Resistance 2 pack and the IIC pack stack up against their respective predecessors.
My guess is that the new Clan mechs are in many ways better than older Clan mechs of the same class, while the new IS mechs aren't really better, but different or worse than older IS mechs.

Lorian Sunrider, on 24 September 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

Does this game have P2W elements? Yeah sure some.

Exactly, either a game is P2W or it isn't.

Lorian Sunrider, on 24 September 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

But you don't have to put a penny into this game if you don't want to.

True, but that would only matter if you could get everything for C-bills at the same time you can get them for MC or real money.

[0bsidion]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 September 2015 - 09:20 AM, said:

It's coming.

Bounty Hunter Timber Wolf Hero, laser vomit and ECM, + JJs if they let you switch omni-pods.

Where's your source that is going to be released? The equipment on it is straight from lore, though it's kind of surprising, in the past they've been hesitant to release ECM capable heroes.

[CDLord HHGD]

Yellonet, on 24 September 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

P2W doesn't really guarantee success, it's more of giving you advantages over anyone not paying.
Consumables is a P2W part of the game for instance.
Getting super OP mechs for money only is P2W.
The fact that they are released for C-bills later doesn't change anything.

It's quite smart actually, make the game F2P, but make certain parts of it P2W, that way it puts pressure on those not paying to start paying to get abilities on par with the guys that are paying....

Name ONE Hero Mech or any other mech that's now and forever ONLY available for MC that's OP. Urbanmech doesn't count.

And Paywall =/= P2W.

[Yellonet]

0bsidion, on 24 September 2015 - 09:30 AM, said:

Where's your source that is going to be released? The equipment on it is straight from lore, though it's kind of surprising, in the past they've been hesitant to release ECM capable heroes.

The Timber hero is coming, but I doubt that it will have ECM... that would be insane.

Edited by Yellonet, 24 September 2015 - 09:40 AM.

[Yellonet]

cdlord, on 24 September 2015 - 09:34 AM, said:

And Paywall =/= P2W.

Why?
ACH, a mech that is considered OP by many is still only available for real money/MC, paying to get a mech that basically has no disadvantages is P2W even though it's timed P2W doesn't make it any less P2W.
Besides, soon there will be a host of new Clan mechs that is only available for real money, and they will surely be OP too.

Paying money for advantage = P2W

[MeiSooHaityu]

Why dont we have a mechanic in the game where the player who owns the most MC in a given match can click an instant win button. All the mechs on the enemy team just explode and that player earns all 12 kills.

You want your own instant kill button? Better buy more MC.

[CDLord HHGD]

Yellonet, on 24 September 2015 - 09:40 AM, said:

Why?
ACH, a mech that is considered OP by many is still only available for real money/MC, paying to get a mech that basically has no disadvantages is P2W even though it's timed P2W doesn't make it any less P2W.
Besides, soon there will be a host of new Clan mechs that is only available for real money, and they will surely be OP too.

Paying money for advantage = P2W

Just because one mech is broke doesn't mean it's P2W. It's Paywall. You want it now? Pay. You want it for free, wait. The very FACT that it's going to be available for free eventually means it is NOT P2W.

You missed the P2W QQ by about 6 months btw.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Tier 6 idea.

[Yellonet]

cdlord, on 24 September 2015 - 09:47 AM, said:

Just because one mech is broke doesn't mean it's P2W. It's Paywall. You want it now? Pay. You want it for free, wait. The very FACT that it's going to be available for free eventually means it is NOT P2W.

You missed the P2W QQ by about 6 months btw.

So if a super awesome mech would be pay only for 3 years it wouldn't be P2W, because after those 3 years it would be available for C-bills. Not P2W?
If that's too long, then what is the defined and generally agreed upon time limit for when you can call something P2W?

Edited by Yellonet, 24 September 2015 - 10:00 AM.

[Lorian Sunrider]

Yellonet, on 24 September 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

So if a super awesome mech would be pay only for 3 years it wouldn't be P2W, because after those 3 years it would be available for C-bills. Not P2W?
If that's too long, then what is the defined and generally agreed upon time limit for when you can call something P2W?

Way to exaggerate with your choice of 3 years.

Again, its a couple months at most usually. This is a free to play game. The Devs have to make money somehow. Don't like it? Don't play free to play games.

[WarHippy]

Yellonet, on 24 September 2015 - 09:30 AM, said:

Not the better ones.

Which ones? The only one that is sort of true on is the Cool shot one, but I actually prefer the c-bill version as I get the same amount of cooling as the MC version but instead of blowing my load with a single use I can break it into two uses which in my mind is a great deal better.

Yellonet, on 24 September 2015 - 09:30 AM, said:

During the time that a very good mech is available only for MC or real money players that pay do have an advantage.

The advantage is that they got it early. Still isn't play to win unless you squint really hard to find something to complain about and have a terrible opinion.

Yellonet, on 24 September 2015 - 09:30 AM, said:

If older mechs were as good as new ones this wouldn't be true as new mechs would only bring variety, not making older mechs out-dated. At least for the Clans this seems to be the case.

Strange, I was unaware that the Timber Wolf, Dire Wolf, and Stormcrow all of which were wave 1 were dethroned as the holy trinity of mechs.

Yellonet, on 24 September 2015 - 09:30 AM, said:

It will be interesting to compare the how the mechs in the Resistance 2 pack and the IIC pack stack up against their respective predecessors.

So far people have been unimpressed with Resistance 1 and 2 mechs in general so the entire concept of new is better seems misinformed.

Edited by WarHippy, 24 September 2015 - 10:04 AM.

[0bsidion]

Yellonet, on 24 September 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

The Timber hero is coming, but I doubt that it will have ECM... that would be insane.

Gas seems pretty convinced it's going to be the BH version, which is listed as having ECM. It would be RT pod with only a single E hardpoint. Of course the left torso pod A with the triple shoulder mounted E hardpoints is the most dangerous. Yeah, that's actually a little scary.

[Yellonet]

Lorian Sunrider, on 24 September 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

Way to exaggerate with your choice of 3 years.

Again, its a couple months at most usually. This is a free to play game. The Devs have to make money somehow. Don't like it? Don't play free to play games.

Yes it was meant to be an exaggeration as the argument was that limited time != P2W.
But if a couple of months does not make it P2W, what time limit would?