41 replies to this topic

[Xetelian]

http://www.sarna.net...ignal_Circuitry

Quote

Myomer Accelerator Signal Circuitry is a piece of equipment that allows a BattleMech to move twice its walking speed.

It fills up too fast.
Cools down too slow.
Provides little in lasting speed and the boost to acceleration is a pittance for 2 tons.

I don't know how well it works on the EXE but on the SHC it is a huge waste.


So if we can't double the 'walking speed' can we figure some other useful way to incorporate it?

Edited by Xetelian, 12 August 2015 - 10:53 PM.

[Mcgral18]

If PGI is content keeping it a pitiful 10% speed boost (where 20% would be TT with speed tweak), they could increase the time you can use it to 20 seconds.


For those interested, here are all 9 versions of MASC:

-<ModuleList>
<!-- InnerSphere MASC -->
-<Module faction="InnerSphere" CType="CMASCStats" name="MASCMkI" id="1600">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\MASC.png" descTag="@MASCMkI_desc" shortNameTag="@ui_MASCMkI" nameTag="@MASCMkI"/>
<ModuleStats TonsMax="20" TonsMin="20" amountAllowed="1" health="10" tons="1.0" slots="1"/>
<MASCStats WeaponSpread="2.5" WeaponShake="0.25" DamageMax="0.88" DamageMin="0.72" DamageRate="0.5" GaugeDamagePoint="0.75" GaugeDrain="0.02" GaugeFill="0.1" BoostTurn="0.25" BoostDecel="1.5" BoostAccel="1.75" BoostSpeed="0.1"/>
</Module>

-<Module faction="InnerSphere" CType="CMASCStats" name="MASCMkII" id="1601">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\MASC.png" descTag="@MASCMkII_desc" shortNameTag="@ui_MASCMkII" nameTag="@MASCMkII"/>
<ModuleStats TonsMax="40" TonsMin="25" amountAllowed="1" health="10" tons="2.0" slots="2"/>
<MASCStats WeaponSpread="2.5" WeaponShake="0.25" DamageMax="1.32" DamageMin="1.08" DamageRate="0.5" GaugeDamagePoint="0.75" GaugeDrain="0.02" GaugeFill="0.1" BoostTurn="0.25" BoostDecel="1.5" BoostAccel="1.75" BoostSpeed="0.1"/>
</Module>

-<Module faction="InnerSphere" CType="CMASCStats" name="MASCMkIII" id="1602">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\MASC.png" descTag="@MASCMkIII_desc" shortNameTag="@ui_MASCMkIII" nameTag="@MASCMkIII"/>
<ModuleStats TonsMax="60" TonsMin="45" amountAllowed="1" health="10" tons="3.0" slots="3"/>
<MASCStats WeaponSpread="2.5" WeaponShake="0.25" DamageMax="2.42" DamageMin="1.98" DamageRate="0.5" GaugeDamagePoint="0.75" GaugeDrain="0.02" GaugeFill="0.1" BoostTurn="0.25" BoostDecel="1.5" BoostAccel="1.75" BoostSpeed="0.12"/>
</Module>

-<Module faction="InnerSphere" CType="CMASCStats" name="MASCMkIV" id="1603">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\MASC.png" descTag="@MASCMkIV_desc" shortNameTag="@ui_MASCMkIV" nameTag="@MASCMkIV"/>
<ModuleStats TonsMax="80" TonsMin="65" amountAllowed="1" health="10" tons="4.0" slots="4"/>
<MASCStats WeaponSpread="2.5" WeaponShake="0.25" DamageMax="3.3" DamageMin="2.7" DamageRate="0.5" GaugeDamagePoint="0.75" GaugeDrain="0.02" GaugeFill="0.1" BoostTurn="0.25" BoostDecel="1.5" BoostAccel="1.75" BoostSpeed="0.17"/>
</Module>

-<Module faction="InnerSphere" CType="CMASCStats" name="MASCMkV" id="1604">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\MASC.png" descTag="@MASCMkV_desc" shortNameTag="@ui_MASCMkV" nameTag="@MASCMkV"/>
<ModuleStats TonsMax="100" TonsMin="85" amountAllowed="1" health="10" tons="5.0" slots="5"/>
<MASCStats WeaponSpread="2.5" WeaponShake="0.25" DamageMax="3.96" DamageMin="3.24" DamageRate="0.5" GaugeDamagePoint="0.75" GaugeDrain="0.02" GaugeFill="0.1" BoostTurn="0.25" BoostDecel="1.5" BoostAccel="1.75" BoostSpeed="0.2"/>
</Module>
<!-- Clan MASC -->
 
-<Module faction="Clan" CType="CMASCStats" name="ClanMASCMkI" id="1605">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\MASC.png" descTag="@ClanMASCMkI_desc" shortNameTag="@ui_ClanMASCMkI" nameTag="@ClanMASCMkI"/>
<ModuleStats TonsMax="25" TonsMin="20" amountAllowed="1" health="10" tons="1.0" slots="1"/>
<MASCStats WeaponSpread="2.5" WeaponShake="0.25" DamageMax="0.88" DamageMin="0.72" DamageRate="0.5" GaugeDamagePoint="0.75" GaugeDrain="0.02" GaugeFill="0.1" BoostTurn="0.25" BoostDecel="1.5" BoostAccel="1.75" BoostSpeed="0.1"/>
</Module>

-<Module faction="Clan" CType="CMASCStats" name="ClanMASCMkII" id="1606">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\MASC.png" descTag="@ClanMASCMkII_desc" shortNameTag="@ui_ClanMASCMkII" nameTag="@ClanMASCMkII"/>
<ModuleStats TonsMax="50" TonsMin="30" amountAllowed="1" health="10" tons="2.0" slots="2"/>
<MASCStats WeaponSpread="2.5" WeaponShake="0.25" DamageMax="1.54" DamageMin="1.26" DamageRate="0.5" GaugeDamagePoint="0.75" GaugeDrain="0.02" GaugeFill="0.1" BoostTurn="0.25" BoostDecel="1.5" BoostAccel="1.75" BoostSpeed="0.1"/>
</Module>

-<Module faction="Clan" CType="CMASCStats" name="ClanMASCMkIII" id="1607">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\MASC.png" descTag="@ClanMASCMkIII_desc" shortNameTag="@ui_ClanMASCMkIII" nameTag="@ClanMASCMkIII"/>
<ModuleStats TonsMax="75" TonsMin="55" amountAllowed="1" health="10" tons="3.0" slots="3"/>
<MASCStats WeaponSpread="2.5" WeaponShake="0.25" DamageMax="2.86" DamageMin="2.34" DamageRate="0.5" GaugeDamagePoint="0.75" GaugeDrain="0.02" GaugeFill="0.1" BoostTurn="0.25" BoostDecel="1.5" BoostAccel="1.75" BoostSpeed="0.155"/>
</Module>

-<Module faction="Clan" CType="CMASCStats" name="ClanMASCMkIV" id="1608">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\MASC.png" descTag="@ClanMASCMkIV_desc" shortNameTag="@ui_ClanMASCMkIV" nameTag="@ClanMASCMkIV"/>
<ModuleStats TonsMax="100" TonsMin="80" amountAllowed="1" health="10" tons="4.0" slots="4"/>
<MASCStats WeaponSpread="2.5" WeaponShake="0.25" DamageMax="3.74" DamageMin="3.06" DamageRate="0.5" GaugeDamagePoint="0.75" GaugeDrain="0.02" GaugeFill="0.1" BoostTurn="0.25" BoostDecel="1.5" BoostAccel="1.75" BoostSpeed="0.185"/>
</Module>
</ModuleList>

A couple .XML changes can change their effectiveness.

[ScreamingSkull]

The Shadow Cat goes 130 kph with MASC in Battletech... (and that's without MWO's speed tweak). It'd make the mech a lot better for sure.

[Bloodweaver]

It works very well on the EXE. On slow assaults, you get a lot more out of the instant acceleration/deceleration boosts.

On the SCAT, though, it doesn't even give you the speed boost you would get by putting the same weight into a larger engine. And because 45-ton 'Mechs are already pretty mobile, the agility boost isn't as game-changing either.

Honestly, they should either increase its duration OR increase its speed. I'd prefer a speed increase closer to TT values while keeping the duration similar to what it is now, but either solution would probably work.

[RedDevil]

It works really well on the Executioner with the 18.5% boost. It's very underwhelming on the the Shadow Cat with the smaller 10% boost..

Edited by RedDevil, 12 August 2015 - 11:58 PM.

[Hades Trooper]

ScreamingSkull, on 12 August 2015 - 11:16 PM, said:

The Shadow Cat goes 130 kph with MASC in Battletech... (and that's without MWO's speed tweak). It'd make the mech a lot better for sure.

i thought it went more like 145 with masc on?

Either way, at the speed they are now, from my friends experience they do like the instant top speed and decrease in speed abilities but the top speed is really low.

From watching in peoples cockpits it makes the mech seems more nimble in the stop start back forth turn and run things but seems extremely underwhelming for the top speed it gives and how long it takes to recharge.

For it's weight those with it says it's not worth it needs a bit more top end speed applied.

yet on sarna it says the masc executioner tops speed is 86.4 which seems to be what they get to but the shadowcat says it gets to speed 130kph,

Why is the shadowcat being ripped off compared to the executioner?

[Paigan]

The main (and far more important) advantage of MASC in MWO is its agility boost and some "special" advantages.
Agility does not exist in TT in that form.

I'd rather have the agility boost and mediocre speed boost than the full speed boost and no agility boost at all.

I really have to call "L2P" regarding this issue and that is not meant with cynicism or arrogance.
Just don't disregard the agility side. And yes, it takes some training to exploit its full potential. So please don't play one game and whine that the agility boost is hardly relevant. Again: L2P (MASC).

That being said, they could give medium Mechs 15% speed boost instead of 10%.
Maybe capped at 150kph to avoid those funny technical limitations.
Apart from that, I think it's fine.

Edited by Paigan, 13 August 2015 - 02:08 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

Chuck YeaGurr, on 13 August 2015 - 01:16 AM, said:

Because quoting SARMA is like believing in Santa Claus. Please go find a table in a basement until we need some money to keep the game going.

Shadow Cat
Tonnage: 45
Engine rating 270
MASC
Walk MP: engine rating / tonnage
Run MP: walk MP * 1.5, rounded up
MASC MP: walk MP * 2
MP: 6/9(12)
Top speed conversion: MP * 10.8
Walking speed: 64.8kph
Run speed: 97.2kph
MASC top speed: 129.6

This has absolutely nothing to do with sarna. These are the relevant stats for the SHC, I wrote down the relevant formulas so you can verify the numbers for yourself. This is the only way those numbers can be interpreted.
Edit: I left out the jump jets because they aren't relevant to this discussion.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 13 August 2015 - 02:18 AM.

[LordBraxton]

MASC on EXE = god tier. MASC on Scat = gimmick.

[Rushin Roulette]

Xetelian, on 12 August 2015 - 10:43 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net...ignal_Circuitry


It fills up too fast.
Cools down too slow.
Provides little in lasting speed and the boost to acceleration is a pittance for 2 tons.

I don't know how well it works on the EXE but on the SHC it is a huge waste.


So if we can't double the 'walking speed' can we figure some other useful way to incorporate it?

MASC does EXACTLY what it is supposed to do and 130 KPH is the correct speed for it while activated

Satan n stuff, on 13 August 2015 - 02:14 AM, said:

Shadow Cat
Tonnage: 45
Engine rating 270
MASC
Walk MP: engine rating / tonnage
Run MP: walk MP * 1.5, rounded up
MASC MP: walk MP * 2
MP: 6/9(12)
Top speed conversion: MP * 10.8
Walking speed: 64.8kph
Run speed: 97.2kph
MASC top speed: 129.6

Walking speed is 64,8KPH times 2 = 129,6 KPH

Again....

Xetelian, on 12 August 2015 - 10:43 PM, said:

double the 'walking speed'

Xetelian, on 12 August 2015 - 10:43 PM, said:

'walking speed'

Xetelian, on 12 August 2015 - 10:43 PM, said:

walking

Not double the Running speed

EDIT: Even Sarna has the MASC speed listed
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Shadow_Cat Speed 97 km/h (130 km/h with MASC)

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 13 August 2015 - 04:29 AM.

[Lugh]

Paigan, on 13 August 2015 - 02:06 AM, said:

The main (and far more important) advantage of MASC in MWO is its agility boost and some "special" advantages.
Agility does not exist in TT in that form.

I'd rather have the agility boost and mediocre speed boost than the full speed boost and no agility boost at all.

I really have to call "L2P" regarding this issue and that is not meant with cynicism or arrogance.
Just don't disregard the agility side. And yes, it takes some training to exploit its full potential. So please don't play one game and whine that the agility boost is hardly relevant. Again: L2P (MASC).

That being said, they could give medium Mechs 15% speed boost instead of 10%.
Maybe capped at 150kph to avoid those funny technical limitations.
Apart from that, I think it's fine.

You would get similiar agility from a 2 ton larger engine ALL THE TIME.

The bonus for the limited use on MASC needs to be much much higher.

Rushin Roulette, on 13 August 2015 - 04:27 AM, said:

MASC does EXACTLY what it is supposed to do and 130 KPH is the correct speed for it while activated




Walking speed is 64,8KPH times 2 = 129,6 KPH

Again....




Not double the Running speed

EDIT: Even Sarna has the MASC speed listed
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Shadow_Cat Speed 97 km/h (130 km/h with MASC)

Here it's 116kph? Meh.

[Coolant]

i only own the Executioner so can't say about the Shadowcat, but it can be useful on the EXE. I can't wait for all variants to come out for CBills. Right now the one I have is just too slow except when I'm using MASC. Once I can get Speed Tweak + MASC I think the EXE will be a fine mech.

[Khobai]

MASC is great on EXE

The problem with MASC is that the speed bonus gets SMALLER on lighter mechs.

Because they made the wrong assumption that lighter mechs always go faster. But thats not true in the case of the Shadowcat which is a pretty slow mech for its tonnage.

So the simple fix: just give the Shadowcat a quirk that doubles MASC bonuses

[MechaBattler]

I honestly can't weigh too much on it, because I didn't buy the mechs with it. My guess is they're trying to keep MASC from becoming a necessary item on mechs.

Edited by MechaBattler, 13 August 2015 - 08:12 AM.

[CygnusX7]

Bloodweaver, on 12 August 2015 - 11:53 PM, said:

It works very well on the EXE. On slow assaults, you get a lot more out of the instant acceleration/deceleration boosts.

On the SCAT, though, it doesn't even give you the speed boost you would get by putting the same weight into a larger engine. And because 45-ton 'Mechs are already pretty mobile, the agility boost isn't as game-changing either.

Honestly, they should either increase its duration OR increase its speed. I'd prefer a speed increase closer to TT values while keeping the duration similar to what it is now, but either solution would probably work.

Be interesting if it was adjustable. Increase speed, less duration. Increase duration, less speed.

[Ryokens leap]

After levelling Shadowcats and Executioners i find myself hitting the masc key while piloting other chassis. I find it to be a really nice addition, especially on touchdown after jj burns.

[SpiralFace]

Khobai, on 13 August 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:

So the simple fix: just give the Shadowcat a quirk that doubles MASC bonuses

Or how about just fixing MASC to provide a proper incentive?

Wolverines are mechs in the IS side that have MASC at the medium tonnage bracket and they WILL have the option to simply forgo the equipment for an alternative engine. So why quirk what is fundamentally broken at its core just to fix one chassis.

Thats a huge part of the issue with the quirk system in general. People want to quirk every little thing when the issue is the core piece of equipment.

[Greenjulius]

The 18.5% for the Executioner makes a big difference with a nice boost of 13.19kph, (71.3 to 84.49) and the accel/decel is very helpful too. It makes it perform more like a heavy when activated. Overall, MASC is a success on the Exe. Worth the 4 tons.

The Shadowcat only gets a 10% boost for 10.69kph, (106.9 to 117.59) and the accel/decel bonuses are muted because the mech is already quite nimble. It still feels like a 40-45 tonner when activated. Overall, MASC is a waste on the SCat. Not worth the 2 tons.

Edited by Greenjulius, 13 August 2015 - 08:56 AM.

[Sjorpha]

Yeah, it should have it's canon speed boost I think.

[levitas]

If you rely on masc for a sustained speed boost, you're using it wrong. No mech can go from full forward to full reverse as quickly as a shadowcat, meaning you can poke over cover, alpha, and remove yourself as a target better than any mech without an associated heat cost (like jump jets would).

The shadow cat does have issues, but ignoring that the true point of masc is to get you up to speed in 1/3 the time it would otherwise take leads to discussions about things like how it would be better with a 2 ton heavier engine.

This mech is a dream to defilade in.