53 replies to this topic

[Thorqemada]

PSR = PLAYTIME + SUCCESS Rating !!!

Edited by Thorqemada, 25 September 2015 - 11:02 PM.

[MrMadguy]

Thorqemada, on 25 September 2015 - 11:01 PM, said:

PSR = PLAYTIME + SUCCESS Rating !!!

PSR = P2W Success Rating.

[Alek Ituin]

MrMadguy, on 25 September 2015 - 10:51 PM, said:

Also I want to say, that lack of personal skill based MM - is what leads to P2W. There is no real balance in this game, so there are Meta and FOTM 'Mechs here. And skill - is not always a personal experience. Builds used - are often may reach 50% of contribution into "skill". And Meta and FOTM - are what usually sold for $$$, even if it's just early access. It wouldn't be a problem in personal skill based game, cuz in this game Meta and FOTM players are matched against each other only. But when game developers say "you all will eventually end up in the same personal skill rating Tier" - it leads directly to P2W in a game, where there is no real balance between 'Mechs and builds. And I won't play P2W game, sorry.

There's P2W and P4C (Pay 4 Convenience).

Since those "meta/fotm" Mechs are released for C-Bills, and in the case of Clans, often unnerfed... then it can't be P2W.

P2W is when you gain a serious combat advantage for real money, but only if that's the only way to gain the advantage. Since PGI releases those "P2W" Mechs for in-game currency, it shifts from "P2W" to "P4C", you pay for the convenience of having them earlier and not spending in-game currency. And yes, despite what you might think there is a difference.

[MrMadguy]

Lol. I really feel, that there is no real MM in this game: PGI just assumes, that the more matches you have played - the higher your skill. The longer you play - the more game turns into hell. As simple as that. There was a time, when I was doing 1k dmg in Firebrand, but about a year ago my "rank" crossed my real skill level and now there is no way back to appropriate skill tier - only to start fresh account. I just can't believe, that PGI is so incompetent in game development...

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Strictly speaking win rate is the best indicator of skill over infinite number of games, if you were to seperate solo from group matches. A good player will win more matches than the average, and a bad player the opposite.

[Bluttrunken]

vnlk65n, on 26 September 2015 - 02:52 AM, said:

Strictly speaking win rate is the best indicator of skill over infinite number of games, if you were to seperate solo from group matches. A good player will win more matches than the average, and a bad player the opposite.

The best indicator would be to collect your average performance(match score) and comparing that with the rest of the player base. Then you can divide the playerbase into tiers according to this average performance.(Top 10% = Tier 1, following 20% = Tier 2, following 40% = Tier 3, following 20% = Tier 4, Tier 5 = worst 10%)

Edited by k05h3lk1n, 26 September 2015 - 05:07 AM.

[Moomtazz]

Leave the system as it is and just rename it to something that doesn't imply that it is an absolute measure of an individual player's skill.

The current way is kinda like saying Scotty Pippen was a superstar, when the reality was he was mediocre but played with Jordan.

Or Barry Sanders was a scrub because he played for Detroit.

Edited by Moomtazz, 26 September 2015 - 05:13 AM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Agree with OP. For every match where I work my tail off herding sheep and putting damage downrange, there is another match with the uncontested base cap or Assault suicide lance.

That's the frustrating thing - you work one game really hard to get an up arrow, and the next one is a cluster that you couldn't have saved, even if you were Proton.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 26 September 2015 - 05:19 AM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

This is not a new finding. We already learned what a mistake tying wins was during that kill/assist/win challenge a few months back. PGI stopped including team wins as a requirement for their challenge rewards, so I don't understand why they went back to it here.

[Zoid]

The simple advantage to the new system is that if you're a good player with a bunch of idiots, you don't lose PSR like you did ELO. I've found that around 300-400 match score is usually enough to not lose any PSR after a loss, meaning that my terribad team being terribad doesn't negatively affect my rating. Now there are times when there's really nothing you can do, like last night I had a game in which 7 of my team were dead in 2 minutes, but most of the time you can at least stay where you are if your team is awful.

Before, it was only dependent on whether you won or lost, so you could have a 1200 damage 9 kill game and still lose ELO if your team was really that terrible. This is basically the only advantage to the new system and I think it's a very good one. The only drawback is that if you like to run mostly support 'mechs, you're still SOL.

Edited by Zoid, 26 September 2015 - 05:40 AM.

[Amsro]

Yep, PSR = team stat = irrelevant tiers

Which brings it all back to the matchmaker, how could the matches possibly be balanced if everyone is considered the same skill but with less experience (matches played).

I don't think PSR was thought out to the end. But since Elo **** the bed it was time for something else.

Damage is king, good luck to any other play style. I wonder why the Heavy and Assault que is almost always %50 more crowded then the light and medium que.

[Erkki]

Each player, however, certainly is part of their team and can contribute.

While the TTK is a bit lower even in WoT, the games are 15 vs. 15 yet it is still very possible, playing 100% solo, to win 60% or more of the battles. Even at high tiers.

If skill incudes ability to work as a valuable, contributing(by any means) member of the team, then win ratio is all but meaningless. Remember its only T5 and 5 that cant meet any other player.


Unfortunately group queue messes with the stats a lot. Maybe there should be separate stats and PSR for solo and group.

[Zergling]

Erkki, on 26 September 2015 - 06:08 AM, said:

While the TTK is a bit lower even in WoT, the games are 15 vs. 15 yet it is still very possible, playing 100% solo, to win 60% or more of the battles. Even at high tiers.

I remember when an infamous player on the NA server did a 100 battle challenge in the KV-5, widely regarded as one of the worst Tier 8 tanks, playing entirely solo and without using any gold ammo or consumables.

Yet he still managed to pull of a 65% winrate for that challenge; he even posted all his replay files and screenshots of result screens for doubters to verify.

Erkki, on 26 September 2015 - 06:08 AM, said:

Unfortunately group queue messes with the stats a lot. Maybe there should be separate stats and PSR for solo and group.

Agreed.

Edited by Zergling, 26 September 2015 - 01:57 PM.

[SolarCleric]

I played 10 matches today. won 3 lost 7. I scored around 300 for all of the matches and went down the majority of the games. I'm pretty fed up with the game at this point. As far as I can tell only if you do extremely well will your score go up in a loss. At the best if you have an average game in a loss you stay the same, but most times you go down. You're still dependent on the win. So when I was tossed into T4 and play with all the bottom feeders (like me)....now I lose more than ever because there are no good players to drag you out of the abyss. Good thinking PGI....this is a great system.. I lost half my games before change and now I lose 70% of the games....you made something that I sometimes won at to something that I rarely win at. Yeah that's fun, awesome. /fallsonsword

[FireDog]

MrMadguy, on 25 September 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

...We see this:

Someone does not even know how to make a graph right. The colored rectangles should not extend to 0 on the Y axis except for the ones on the left.

The only three boxes that are correct are the win "no change", lose "largest drop" and the lose "smallest rise". The X axis does not matter.

Personally, I think the delta of raise/lower PSRs should be based more relative to the scores on the same team. If your team stinks, its really hard to get a high match score to break even or improve. But if one does play well and their score high relative to the rest of your team, the player should get a normal raise, or at least break even.

Edited by FireDog, 26 September 2015 - 02:00 PM.

[Alek Ituin]

Zergling, on 26 September 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

I remember when an infamous player on the NA server did a 100 battle challenge in the KV-5, widely regarded as one of the worst Tier 8 tanks, playing entirely solo and without using any gold ammo or consumables.

Yet he still managed to pull of a 65% winrate for that challenge; he even posted all his replay files and screenshots of result screens for doubters to verify.

That's because the KV-5 is actually a monstrous tank that should instill a righteous fear in its opponents.

It's still a b*tch & a half to pen even after they heavily nerfed its armor, and that gun is like the gun on the Type 59: only as good as the person operating it.

Edited by Alek Ituin, 26 September 2015 - 02:10 PM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Problem I am seeing is that since match score is weighted heavily towards damage, non-brawly lights are screwed. The reward system under-represents spotting, flanking, luring, curling, capping, etc. which exacerbates the negative effects of PSR.

Today I bought Timberwolves. Its easy to rack up damage and kills, and significantly mitigates taking a loss. In fact I had several matches where we lost but I actually went UP in PSR soley because of the extra damage I could throw out.

My Raven 3L is running 3 med pulse.
My Timber is a 4 ERML / 24 Cstreak.

I work my butt off in my Raven and get negative arrows
I am a clueless noob in my Timber and get positive arrows.

That's very frustrating. If I want to raise my PSR, I have to ditch my fav mech.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 26 September 2015 - 02:27 PM.

[Deathlike]

Fenrisulvyn, on 26 September 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

Problem I am seeing is that since match score is weighted heavily towards damage, non-brawly lights are screwed. The reward system under-represents spotting, flanking, luring, curling, capping, etc. which exacerbates the negative effects of PSR.

Today I bought Timberwolves. Its easy to rack up damage and kills, and significantly mitigates taking a loss. In fact I had several matches where we lost but I actually went UP in PSR soley because of the extra damage I could throw out.

My Raven 3L is running 3 med pulse.
My Timber is a 4 ERML / 24 Cstreak.

I work my butt off in my Raven and get negative arrows
I am a clueless noob in my Timber and get positive arrows.

That's very frustrating. If I want to raise my PSR, I have to ditch my fav mech.

The 3MPL Raven is pretty pedestrian. In theory you could do the same, if not better in a Spider-5D.

Just saying.

[EgoSlayer]

MrMadguy, on 26 September 2015 - 02:45 AM, said:

Lol. I really feel, that there is no real MM in this game: PGI just assumes, that the more matches you have played - the higher your skill. The longer you play - the more game turns into hell. As simple as that. There was a time, when I was doing 1k dmg in Firebrand, but about a year ago my "rank" crossed my real skill level and now there is no way back to appropriate skill tier - only to start fresh account. I just can't believe, that PGI is so incompetent in game development...

There is your problem right there. Scoring 1000 damage in a match isn't an appropriate skill match (outside of CW), it's seal clubbing. Your expectations of being able to score that in a match and thinking that is the right skill level is just flat out wrong.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"The 3MPL Raven is pretty pedestrian. In theory you could do the same, if not better in a Spider-5D."

Not really. I've had 600pt damage matches with it. Its max speed, with bap and adv sensor to stubbornly push the scout role when I get in behind the enemy. And the rest is all heat sinks, so I never shut down.

I run other builds on it, 2ERL... 2 Large pulse... 3 med lasers / SRM8 artermis (or even 12s). Its total damage is not that far behind the others, usually in the 250-350 range.

Although I agree the 3L itself is subpar these days. It needs at least 1 more laser hardpoint, especially since they are nerfing ecm

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 26 September 2015 - 03:14 PM.