40 replies to this topic

[Halfbreed]

mattkachu, on 08 July 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

Lots of mw4 haters on the forums nowadays, but thats because many of them are the hardcore TT'ers that span many generations back before the PC made the franchise more casual.

Thats a problem I have been noticing a lot on these boards, people seem to forget that even tho its the same world and all that, the PC Game and TT game are still different games. They will never be exactly the same, I've played the TT, RPG, Clix TT, and the PC, they are all different but all still good in their own right.

[dboy]

Vandul, on 08 July 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

I thought this topic was about Rent-A-Center.

I thought it meant Robert's Anime Corner.

[Deathz Jester]

CCC Dober, on 08 July 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

You fell right into the troll trap *clap clap*

Congrats, you're a troll, welcome to the internet. Would you like a cookie?

CCC Dober, on 08 July 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

I'm under no illusion that you are even able to grasp the magnitude of the service that has been rendered to you by Mektek or the development work necessary to make seemingly overpowered experimental TT concepts work without 'proper' guidance of canon.

I think that you're vastly over weighing the level of service that MekTek has done, and MW4 is hardly close to TT concepts. While yes the game is vastly more fun with MP3.1 installed and I do appreciate the time & effort expended by the team, I realize that MW4 is a cartoony looking engine with more downs than ups. Its nice to play it and get my fill of arcade-ish robot shoot 'em up action out of the way, but its not the game I wanted it to be.

MWO is going to be the game I want it to be

CCC Dober, on 08 July 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

And for the record: if you have a better idea how to tame such weapons, step forwards and prove your concept. Mektek did and it works.
It's one thing to criticize, but another thing to do it constructively. Now, where is your solution if I may ask? Ignorance hardly counts now, doesn't it?

It works for MW4, and not MWO, seeing as MW4's guidelines were "how much can microsoft get away with changing and still have it be a battletech-ish game" and MWO's is finding the right balance between canon and fun & playable.

Hopefully instead of how MW4 turned out, especially with MekTek, there will be less doting on the fans and giving them everything they want, and IGP will make their game, with our help. Not having us ranting, and crying about what we want and then having it put in due to the incessant whining.


And for the record, if you have any idea how the mechanics you are defending work, feel free to discuss it and how it balances out. Because I have yet to see you do so, so bashing another member because they haven't put forward any groundbreaking game mechanic theory is just ignorant.


Now where is your solution I may ask? asshattery hardly counts, now doesn't it?

[CCC Dober]

Iron Harlequin, on 08 July 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

Spoiler

Congrats, you're a troll, welcome to the internet. Would you like a cookie?



I think that you're vastly over weighing the level of service that MekTek has done, and MW4 is hardly close to TT concepts. While yes the game is vastly more fun with MP3.1 installed and I do appreciate the time & effort expended by the team, I realize that MW4 is a cartoony looking engine with more downs than ups. Its nice to play it and get my fill of arcade-ish robot shoot 'em up action out of the way, but its not the game I wanted it to be.

MWO is going to be the game I want it to be



It works for MW4, and not MWO, seeing as MW4's guidelines were "how much can microsoft get away with changing and still have it be a battletech-ish game" and MWO's is finding the right balance between canon and fun & playable.

Hopefully instead of how MW4 turned out, especially with MekTek, there will be less doting on the fans and giving them everything they want, and IGP will make their game, with our help. Not having us ranting, and crying about what we want and then having it put in due to the incessant whining.


And for the record, if you have any idea how the mechanics you are defending work, feel free to discuss it and how it balances out. Because I have yet to see you do so, so bashing another member because they haven't put forward any groundbreaking game mechanic theory is just ignorant.


Now where is your solution I may ask? asshattery hardly counts, now doesn't it?

I see you're back to kindergarden now, how cute. Alright, since you asked me nicely you will get a cookie. .

1. Original damage progression works for all kinds of ACs up to the UAC, which is debatable because it borders on OP, especially the UAC20 dealing a solid 40 dmg to a single location when the stars align. This was cut back to 36 for a reason.
2. Original damage progression does NOT work for any RAC because the damage multiplier is 6. The theoretical maximum would be 120 for the CRAC20. That is unacceptable especially when that weapon can deal it without jamming. Mektek fixed that by lowering the damage per shell to such an extent that only the modestly high rate of fire makes the weapon as powerful as the UAC20. Riding the jam times makes it harder with increasing caliber. Again, this was done after multiple months of testing and for various reasons.

You would know that already if you had bothered to play the game. I'm offering you the same deal. Provide a better solution if you can. Next please!

Edited by CCC Dober, 08 July 2012 - 11:09 AM.

[rooster]

pow pow pow pow pow pow pow pow pow pow jam
pow pow pow pow pow pow pow pow pow pow pow pow pow pow pow pow pow pow pow pow overheat

they are really **** weapons but my god are they unreliable.

[CCC Dober]

double post

Edited by CCC Dober, 08 July 2012 - 11:07 AM.

[Deathz Jester]

CCC Dober, on 08 July 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

I see you're back to kindergarden now. Alright, you get your cookie and then please ****** off. Thanks in advance.

1. Original damage progression works for all kinds of ACs up to the UAC, which is debatable because it border on OP, especially the UAC20 dealing a solid 40 dmg to a single location when the stars align.
2. Original damage progression does NOT work for any RAC because the damage multiplier is 6. The theoretical maximum would be 120 for the CRAC20. That is inacceptable especially when that weapon can deal it without jamming. Mektek fixed that by lowering the damage per shell to such an extent that only the high rate of fire makes the weapon as powerful as the UAC20. Riding the jam times makes it harder with increasing caliber.

You would know that already if you had bothered to play the game. Next!

You made 2 points that were poorly written about information regarding the mod, with un-sourced information.

Try to calm down a little when rage mashing your keyboard, kid.

So unless I see a source, other than "playing the game", I guess I'll disregard it as useless inaccurate information.

[CCC Dober]

Iron Harlequin, on 08 July 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

You made 2 points that were poorly written about information regarding the mod, with un-sourced information.

Try to calm down a little when rage mashing your keyboard, kid.

So unless I see a source, other than "playing the game", I guess I'll disregard it as useless inaccurate information.

No. It doesn't work this way. Since you can't find flaws in my arguments you resort to the last ditch, questioning the source of my information. Poorly written my 4$$. You're just unwilling to play the mod, that's the whole problem. Let me guess: NBT propaganda. Am I right? I'm not judging you for that. You just don't know it better, that's all.

[Deathz Jester]

CCC Dober, on 08 July 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

No. It doesn't work this way. Since you can't find flaws in my arguments you resort to the last ditch, questioning the source of my information. Poorly written my 4$$. You're just unwilling to play the mod, that's the whole problem. Let me guess: NBT propaganda. Am I right? I'm not judging you for that. You just don't know it better, that's all.

Lol, I'm alt-tabbing between playing MP3.1 right now and attempting to understand why I'm even talking to someone like you.

I've had an account on MekTeks forums since June 9, 2006. White_Panther look me up, if you dont believe me.

So you can assume I'm unwilling to play the mod that I actually am playing right now.

as for flaws against the RACs in MP3.1

• The weight/ammo/damage ratios (excluding the RAC/2 and 5) are horrid
  
  You can fit too much ammunition per ton in any of the RACs, while this is understandable with the lower calibre RACs, its not with the larger 10 and 20 RACs. Canon ammunition per ton for the RAC/2 is 45 rounds per ton and the RAC/5 is 20 rounds per ton. I can understand (somewhat) boosting the rounds to 120 per ton and 100 per ton. Personally I would've gone with 90 and 45 for them but thats just me. Now for the 10s and 20s, which are essentially Doom bringing death cannons, the 10 gets 60 rounds per ton and the 20 gets 30 rounds per ton. While yes, hardly any of the ammunition consuming weapons in MW4 have canon ammunition counts thats no excuse to add to the pile, and in the process make 2 weapons almost completely imbalanced.
  
  The actual weight of the larger weapons, is too little when a Standard Clan Ultra AC/10 is 13 tons and the 20 is 16 tons. The CRAC 10 only weighs in at 12 tons and the 20 in at 14 tons. Its like they forgot that the RACs weigh more than their standard counter parts. The RAC/2 and RAC/5s weigh more than standard Autocannons.
  
  As for damage, the RAC10 is like firing almost 2 medium lasers every half second for little to no heat, with only a chance for weapon jam. So there's little to no downside to using the weapon, and the RAC20 is like firing a Large Laser every .75 seconds with little to no heat, and only a chance for weapon jam. Yes you are infact consuming ammunition at an alarming rate, however the with any other weapons and even a bit of skill the target will likely crumble in a few seconds under that kind of firepower. And as long as I stocked up on ammunition and armor I have little need to worry as long as I can keep my crosshair on target and not panic during weapon jams.
  
• In regards to the possibility of having the 10s and 20s in MWO, They aren't canon and I dont need anymore reason than that.
  
• The weapons are overpowered after reaching the 10 and 20 rating RACs as I stated above.

So again I say source your information kid.

Edited by Iron Harlequin, 08 July 2012 - 11:49 AM.

[Halfbreed]

Don't you love it when people start fighting in the thread that you made.

/sarcasm

[PoPuP]

I love me some RAC, even in MW4 i still like those cannons

[verybad]

They're fun weapons, they won't be in the game for quite a while however as they're not out in 3050.

[Future Perfect]

RAC-5 should be the limit and their heat factor should be increased in order to make them more balanced.

[Jakob Knight]

I think the RAC is a pipe dream of autocannon enthusiasts at the NAIS who have had way too much java and too little sleep. The standard autocannons do fine....no sense putting your life and mission in the hands of a weapon that tears itself to shreds or explodes in a dramatic fashion very time the trigger is pulled. I've seen the test footage of the prototypes those gungeeks have put together, and let me tell you, boys....don't let them NAIS fellows pull off your gun for their latest 'revolution'.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I believe I have a meeting with the General about that new Triple Strength Myomer.....<sound of boot heals walking away>

[CCC Dober]

Iron Harlequin, on 08 July 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

Spoiler

Lol, I'm alt-tabbing between playing MP3.1 right now and attempting to understand why I'm even talking to someone like you.

I've had an account on MekTeks forums since June 9, 2006. White_Panther look me up, if you dont believe me.

So you can assume I'm unwilling to play the mod that I actually am playing right now.

as for flaws against the RACs in MP3.1

• The weight/ammo/damage ratios (excluding the RAC/2 and 5) are horrid
  
  
  
  
  
  You can fit too much ammunition per ton in any of the RACs, while this is understandable with the lower calibre RACs, its not with the larger 10 and 20 RACs. Canon ammunition per ton for the RAC/2 is 45 rounds per ton and the RAC/5 is 20 rounds per ton. I can understand (somewhat) boosting the rounds to 120 per ton and 100 per ton. Personally I would've gone with 90 and 45 for them but thats just me. Now for the 10s and 20s, which are essentially Doom bringing death cannons, the 10 gets 60 rounds per ton and the 20 gets 30 rounds per ton. While yes, hardly any of the ammunition consuming weapons in MW4 have canon ammunition counts thats no excuse to add to the pile, and in the process make 2 weapons almost completely imbalanced.
  
  The actual weight of the larger weapons, is too little when a Standard Clan Ultra AC/10 is 13 tons and the 20 is 16 tons. The CRAC 10 only weighs in at 12 tons and the 20 in at 14 tons. Its like they forgot that the RACs weigh more than their standard counter parts. The RAC/2 and RAC/5s weigh more than standard Autocannons.
  
  As for damage, the RAC10 is like firing almost 2 medium lasers every half second for little to no heat, with only a chance for weapon jam. So there's little to no downside to using the weapon, and the RAC20 is like firing a Large Laser every .75 seconds with little to no heat, and only a chance for weapon jam. Yes you are infact consuming ammunition at an alarming rate, however the with any other weapons and even a bit of skill the target will likely crumble in a few seconds under that kind of firepower. And as long as I stocked up on ammunition and armor I have little need to worry as long as I can keep my crosshair on target and not panic during weapon jams.
  
• In regards to the possibility of having the 10s and 20s in MWO, They aren't canon and I dont need anymore reason than that.
  
• The weapons are overpowered after reaching the 10 and 20 rating RACs as I stated above.

So again I say source your information kid.

Finally you start playing the game instead of being a forum warrior. Don't get me wrong, but the way you seem to judge the weapons doesn't suggest to me that you know much about them. And I have read your kind of argument from countless NBT HC fans that were plain Mektek haters. There are so many similarities and your condescending tone plus the demanding attitude just adds to the impression. Excuse me if I don't take your input serious, but you don't really seem to be objective. Your reference is still canon although the environment for the rules has changed. It's okay if you rather play TT, but don't blame it on Mektek to work within the constraints set by MS and trying not to ruin the game with outrageous BT concepts. It was tempting at times, but it never happened. Just look what NBT did with the HVACs and didn't care for the consequences. If that's your idea of careful balancing then I'm not surprised that you reject MT by default. It's impossible to have a decent conversation with such implicit barriers and I'm calling it a day for now. Good luck with hating what works when canon doesn't. It won't last.

Edited by Mason Grimm, 08 July 2012 - 01:04 PM.

[Mchawkeye]

I prefer Green Flag.

[Mason Grimm]

Let's keep it civil in here. Calling someone a troll without mentioning their name doesn't preclude the fact that everyone knows who you are referring to.

Don't make me turn this car around!!!!!

[Cataphract]

I dont think RACs serve much a purpose compared to UACs although they are an interesting weapon. Hell the RAC was invented by Wizkids with their Mechwarrior Clix game(In which mechs were worthless anyway cause of crap mechanics). Before that game I'd never heard of a RAC in TT or any Mechwarrior game for that matter. Between paper stats and game functionality theres no point in having UACs and RACs together anyhow. There would have to be WAY to much time invested by the devs to have to balance out autocannons at that point since people keep arguing about lasers vs ACs and then another argument between RACs ACs UACs and lasers would start. Besides its been pointed out before that its 3049 so most the tech people are crying over will propably never show anyway and Im glad the game isnt going to start with a mad rush for clan tech cause that made every mechwarrior game a bore for me.

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

omfg, this topic. Mektek actually getting hate for helping keep the series alive. Some of you people make me sick.

Back on topic, I loved the RAC's. Wasn't my weapon of choice, most people were smart enough to limb you when they saw you boating them, and once you've lost 1 or 2 of them they lost their touch.

I highly doubt we'll see them anytime soon, but I'd love to see them again at some point.

[High Priest Dre]

RACs are fun and impressive and all, but Light ACs and LB-X are what I find myself using most often.