13 replies to this topic

[JC Daxion]

Yup... this is how we do it...


Long ranged weapons, aka, LL.ERLL, LPL, gause... Increase recharge...


medium ranged lasers.. ML and MPL increae heat...


All other weapons keep keep the same, outside of ammo...

Add ammo quirks to some mechs..... I could give a list, but id rather let the community decide..

(yes, all mechs need a quirk pass)

commando, cicada 3m, HBKs, cents, Jags, Trebs, stalkers, kint, atlas,


can ya all think of others???

[Death Proof]

Bro, we should totally make flamers do 20 dps but have an RNG chance of blowing up like gauss rifles.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Remove weapon perks from the game, but let IS variants spend 5000 xp per hardpoint to convert to accept Clan weapons.

:^)

Edited by vnlk65n, 26 September 2015 - 01:45 AM.

[Mcgral18]

MLs and SLs already have extra heat; they don't need any more.


SRMs, worthless
Flamers, worthless
MGs worthless
IsSLs worthless


That doesn't sound like balance to me, ignoring half the weapons in the game.

[LordBraxton]

Buff PPCs but nerf cooldown time on all long range weapons by 50% or more.

Lower heat on all IS weapons

Buff the living **** out of SRMs, especially IS SRMs.

Buff LRM's damage but nerf indirect fire heavily.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

OP, you are on the right track.

Long-range high-damage weapons need increased cooldown times (upwards of 2+ seconds).

Short-range weapons should mostly stay where they're at.

SRMs should move to 120 shots/ton, and LB-ACs to 1.2 damage/pellet.

SHS should move to -0.2 h/s, and DHS to -0.3 (SHS become like DHS are now, while DHS become better, but not so much better that they're an automatic upgrade).

The heat cap should move to 40, fixed, and Ghost Heat should go away.

Gauss should move to the 2x max range that every other non-missile weapon has.

AC20s should get 8 shots/ton, AC10s should get 16, AC5s should get 32, and AC2s should get 80 (LB and Ultra variants should match the standard ones).

Fix agility stats to the variant, not the engine rating.

Damaged cXLs should cut your top speed by 30% in addition to the heat penalties.

Moving faster than 50% throttle or running more than 50% heat should cause your shots to deviate around your aim point (could be a cone of fire, but I prefer Dynamic Precision Reduction, which would be a scalable, predictable deviation rather than a random one).

[Juodas Varnas]

LordBraxton, on 26 September 2015 - 07:24 AM, said:

Buff LRM's damage but nerf indirect fire heavily.

I'd argue against increasing LRM damage, but decreasing the spread on bigger launchers (normalizing all of them to the spread of an LRM 10) and increasing the projectile speed.
But yeah, the indirect fire needs to be reigned in. Maybe give the missiles SEVERE spread penalty when firing indirectly (without any extra aid like TAG or NARC). Also, i'd increase the time to achieve a lock on targets with LoS.

[El Bandito]

JC Daxion, on 26 September 2015 - 01:22 AM, said:

Long ranged weapons, aka, LL.ERLL, LPL, gause... Increase recharge...

JC Daxion, on 26 September 2015 - 01:22 AM, said:

Long ranged weapons, aka, LPL

LPL is not long ranged, bro. CLPL is long ranged.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 September 2015 - 07:33 AM.

[JC Daxion]

Mcgral18, on 26 September 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

MLs and SLs already have extra heat; they don't need any more.


SRMs, worthless
Flamers, worthless
MGs worthless
IsSLs worthless


That doesn't sound like balance to me, ignoring half the weapons in the game.

Im not sure if this is a legit post, or a troll...

If you read the post.. it would make SML's a good option...

maching guns.. sure they could use a small buff. but when put in packs, they actaully work pretty well, In game not the are all about crits... Just like Sl's, take the HBK4g for example.. 3 SL+2 Machine guns, after you shread armor with the AC-20.. they will rip a mech apart..


SRm's? Not sure what is wrong with them,.. SRM4's and 2's are very tight... 6's with artemis are pretty decent too. my cent AH and wolvie 7K, are a shade behind my 5SS as far as wins, and KDR..



flamers.. OK ya got me there... they need help...

maybe cause i am not a top tier player.... But hey, top tier players, are all meta.. sooo when that flips, so will they... If ya played for a few years.. you would remember the summer or LRMagaden.... wow.. that was so fun!... even the poptarts complained

El Bandito, on 26 September 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

LPL is not long ranged, bro. CLPL is long ranged.

perhaps... but i am a Short ranged guy... MPL's and Ac-20s, and SRMs.. LPLs feel Long range to me Honesty maybe they don't need much increase... though i think i would increase the recharge a bit.....


BTW... one of my favorite mechs is a jester.. and i also love the TSR-5ss.. and deaths Kneel, so it isnt like i am just saying nerf lasers cause i hate um... I also think quirks are a good thing... but over quirked.. yea.. that is an issue right now.

Juodas Varnas, on 26 September 2015 - 07:27 AM, said:

I'd argue against increasing LRM damage, but decreasing the spread on bigger launchers (normalizing all of them to the spread of an LRM 10) and increasing the projectile speed.
But yeah, the indirect fire needs to be reigned in. Maybe give the missiles SEVERE spread penalty when firing indirectly (without any extra aid like TAG or NARC). Also, i'd increase the time to achieve a lock on targets with LoS.

Yes.. i would tighten spread a bit... and increase travel time... I'd also speed up lock time slightly.... Id also remove Blind firing... You should need to see the target...

Edited by JC Daxion, 26 September 2015 - 10:07 PM.

[Mcgral18]

JC Daxion, on 26 September 2015 - 10:00 PM, said:

Im not sure if this is a legit post, or a troll...

If you read the post.. it would make SML's a good option...

maching guns.. sure they could use a small buff. but when put in packs, they actaully work pretty well, In game not the are all about crits... Just like Sl's, take the HBK4g for example.. 3 SL+2 Machine guns, after you shread armor with the AC-20.. they will rip a mech apart..


SRm's? Not sure what is wrong with them,.. SRM4's and 2's are very tight... 6's with artemis are pretty decent too. my cent AH and wolvie 7K, are a shade behind my 5SS as far as wins, and KDR..

By making other things rubbish, you do not make other things better.
Making the MLs worthless would make people take either more heatsinks and 1 fewer ML (because the range and damage would still be better than the SL) or just take Large or LPLs.

MGs were once in a nice enough spot, then the Nerfinator gimped their damage by 20%. They also have a 3M CoF, which prevents accurate damage application.

The 10.4M CoF on SRM4s disagrees with them being good options. Less bad, but not good. They don't have a solid punch, they travel slowly, they have a large CoF and they have no range to speak of.



Buff SRM damage and 500M/s travel speed with considerations for spread (to less drastic degrees), shorter SL burn time and decrease recycle. Give MGs their 20% damage back and remove the CoF for isMGs.

Edited by Mcgral18, 26 September 2015 - 10:24 PM.

[SaltBeef]

1 Peice of the puzzle,.....Make ECM only stealth the mech carrying it. No Bubble 4 U. But make it reduce enemy sensor range , negated by adding increased sensor range module.

[Mystere]

vnlk65n, on 26 September 2015 - 01:45 AM, said:

Remove weapon perks from the game, but let IS variants spend 5000 xp per hardpoint to convert to accept Clan weapons.

:^)

I think you meant 500,000 GXP.

[Lykaon]

JC Daxion, on 26 September 2015 - 01:22 AM, said:

Yup... this is how we do it...


Long ranged weapons, aka, LL.ERLL, LPL, gause... Increase recharge...


medium ranged lasers.. ML and MPL increae heat...


All other weapons keep keep the same, outside of ammo...

Add ammo quirks to some mechs..... I could give a list, but id rather let the community decide..

(yes, all mechs need a quirk pass)

commando, cicada 3m, HBKs, cents, Jags, Trebs, stalkers, kint, atlas,


can ya all think of others???

Could you maybe explain why you feel these changes will result in balance?

Because it seems like your changes will for the most part encourage long range hide and poke tactics over any closing and brawling.

An here is why.

With longer cooldowns on long range guns you will probably not want to be standing around waiting to be shot at while your weapons cycle.So obviously you poke shoot duck into cover and repeat as the go to tactic.

With higher heat on brawler ranged lasers you will now lack the staying power to be in the open at short range to kill a target in a brief enough time span to avoid having to deal with multiple enemies.With higher heat for brawling weapons the deciding factor tips even more in favor of numbers.This in turn makes brawling a difficult prospect to survive and further encourages long range snipe and hide tactics.

To truely address ballance issues you would want to outline what ballance issues exist and then put forth a possible change to fix a precieved issue.

An example: TTK is exceptionally brief.Since the closed beta TTK has been decreasing.My estimates (as a former closed beta playtester) would place closed beta TTK at three to four times what it is today. Contributing factors in TTK decreasing are

1) improved Hit reg

2) improved heat disapation (DHS,Xl engines Endo steel all allow for weight savings that can provide more efficent cooling)

3) Hardpoint inflation.Older mechs generally have 6 hardpoints in total newer mechs have on occation double that and some clan mechs having six plus hardpoints on a single omni pod.

4) the previous 8 vs 8 format has been replaced with a 12 v 12.More mechs means more firepower.And that means more potentially concentrated focus fire.

5) Clan tech.

Now that we have identified some of the contributing factors in reduced TTK we can start to formulate a plan to counter act these effects.

Hit reg is a possitive with a negative side effect of more damage on target than ever before. Since nobody wants worse hit reg to compensate we have a few options to explore to compensate for higher accuracy.

1) Alter convergence to prevent easy application of accurate high damage alpha strikes.

2) Alter weapon group mechanics to control the volume of damage in a single alpha strike

3) Increase mech defenses by increasing armor and structure to compensate for higher damage volumes being applied with greater accuracy.

The above is just an example and not specificly my opinions.

Edited by Lykaon, 27 September 2015 - 02:28 AM.

[Bloody]

balancing is be a pretty simple process.
1. Allow all mechs to have access to both Clan and IS tech. Remove all weapon quirks. That should normalize everything.
2. Identify bad over advantages hardpoints and weapon mounts. Nerf their quirks
3. identify weak and dominant weapon choices, nerf or buff as required.

the problem now lies with Mech design and hardpoint placement which can be fixed.

the problem with this approach is that it is too logical and all the grognards will burn in furious indignation and the amount of I quit will threads will likely make PGI tuck tail