37 replies to this topic

[meteorol]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 27 September 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

Soi we yet KNOW what "low" "medium" or "high" are in terms of numbers?

From my experience, you have to go full ****** if you don't want to increase your PSR when winning the match.

[Mister Blastman]

Ultimatum X, on 27 September 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

Tarogato's thread where he is collecting stats says otherwise.


http://mwomercs.com/...ts-for-science/






So...

T1: 72% wins average
T2: 67% wins average

Those numbers are skewed because it is not possible for everyone to have a positive win/loss ratio.

But... many bads never bother posting on the forums, too.

[LordBraxton]

Why did we divide the game into tiers when the matchmakers includes between 3 and 5 tiers in any given match.

I dont feel like much has changed

[Ultimax]

EgoSlayer, on 27 September 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

Actually that doesn't disprove or counter it. .

Discount what?

Your assertion that has zero actual proof that you can make it to a higher tier with only a 51% W/L ratio - in an attempt to say those players haven't actually performed better than that?



When you have a statement based on something concrete, then it might be worth trying to "counter it" - right now all we have is you making up a statement vs. a guy actually collecting at least some data.

Mister Blastman, on 27 September 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

Those numbers are skewed because it is not possible for everyone to have a positive win/loss ratio.

But... many bads never bother posting on the forums, too.

Irrelevant to the question at hand.

The W/L of those bads is irrelevant to T2 & T1 as those bads are not going to be in those tiers anyway.


It's also pretty clear that people that don't have positive W/L are most likely in T4 & T5.

[EgoSlayer]

Ultimatum X, on 27 September 2015 - 11:13 AM, said:

Discount what?

Your assertion that has zero actual proof that you can make it to a higher tier with only a 51% W/L ratio - in an attempt to say those players haven't actually performed better than that?



When you have a statement based on something concrete, then it might be worth trying to "counter it" - right now all we have is you making up a statement vs. a guy actually collecting at least some data.

It's not *my* assertion. It's Paul's, the guy who created it.

http://mwomercs.com/...-tiers-and-psr/

Quote

Anyone who has a slightly positive Win/Loss ratio should eventually end up in Tier 1 if they are consistent in their play and match performance.

If we were to turn off new player registration/sign-up and just let the current player base play on forever, eventually everyone will bubble up to Tier 2 or Tier 1.

As to the data posted it isn't proof of or discredit of anything for several reasons that I spelled out above:
First, it's *averages* so you are not seeing the outliers. Two, the data is suspect since it's not *only* PSR match data. Third, the number of matches required on lower win percentages is in the several thousand range of matches played since January 2015, meaning the only people that are there now are the ones with much higher win percentages. Fourth, it's not a representative sample because it's voluntary based on a) People on the forums only and b ) People willing to share their data.

If you can't look at the formula, the parts that have been explained and tested in various other threads, and look past biased data I don't know what to tell you.

Are the tier rankings a problem now? No. In a year from now when the tier ratings are top heavy and not a bell curve distribution it will be.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 27 September 2015 - 11:28 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Ultimatum X, on 27 September 2015 - 11:13 AM, said:

Discount what?

Your assertion that has zero actual proof that you can make it to a higher tier with only a 51% W/L ratio - in an attempt to say those players haven't actually performed better than that?



When you have a statement based on something concrete, then it might be worth trying to "counter it" - right now all we have is you making up a statement vs. a guy actually collecting at least some data.







Irrelevant to the question at hand.

The W/L of those bads is irrelevant to T2 & T1 as those bads are not going to be in those tiers anyway.


It's also pretty clear that people that don't have positive W/L are most likely in T4 & T5.

It doesn't matter if it is irrelevant or not--it is something important to mention regarding the data points presented. The figures are skewed. The pool is so small there is little we can infer from it given the positive win bias.

That is the only thing that is clear.

Give me a pool of a thousand data points and then we might be able to infer something useful from it.

[An Atlas]

Kira Onime, on 27 September 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

Pretty sure that was Paul saying that.

He also said in the very next sentence that no one seems to quote that you "rise to T1 if you keep winning"

Mister Blastman, on 27 September 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Give me a pool of a thousand data points and then we might be able to infer something useful from it.

Oh you can infer from a small sample size...

It just gets more accurate as the size grows.

[Mister Blastman]

MechWarrior1086091, on 27 September 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

Oh you can infer from a small sample size...

It just gets more accurate as the size grows.

You can't if the data is given optionally. There is a tendency to withhold bad figures on forums to pump one's ego. The data must be pulled from a blind pool.

Otherwise, we need more than a few dozen of willing donors. We need several hundred or thousand.

[Jman5]

El Bandito, on 27 September 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

T1-T3 drop together so I would not be surprised if there is a large skill difference between team members.

They do drop together, but I believe there is some sort of matchmaking priority to put people who are close in rating together. For example there are some folks who are rated as low tier 3 that I barely ever see unless I get a really long search or it's oceanic server.

Quote

even within T1, certain players are simply God among men.

This is the problem with competitive games. It's why Starcraft 2 had to create the Masters League and then one up it with the super exclusive Grand Master league. The original top league was just way too open.

[Triordinant]

Win/Loss is more of a team stat than an individual achievement. If most of the Tier 1s have high W/L it's probably because most of them are in organized competitive teams. To show actual individual Skill they should have individual PSR which you can only earn by dropping solo and team PSR you earn when grouped. A lot of players join Units to be carried by that Unit.

[NeoCodex]

So what's the W/L rate going around for tiers these days? I'm 1.17, mid T3.

edit: 3.500 games

Edited by NeoCodex, 27 September 2015 - 12:52 PM.

[El Bandito]

NeoCodex, on 27 September 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:

So what's the W/L rate going around for tiers these days? I'm 1.17, mid T3.

edit: 3.500 games

1.28 WLR, upper T2, 3200 matches. Probably 1/3-1/2 are from January.

Jman5, on 27 September 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

This is the problem with competitive games. It's why Starcraft 2 had to create the Masters League and then one up it with the super exclusive Grand Master league. The original top league was just way too open.

Then we need to tweet Russ for a higher tier than T1.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 September 2015 - 06:42 PM.

[DaFrog]

El Bandito, on 27 September 2015 - 06:31 PM, said:

1.28 WLR, upper T2, 3200 matches. Probably 1/3-1/2 are from January.




Then we need to tweet Russ for a higher tier than T1.

lmfao, ENUFF WITH THE TIER NONSENSE IT'S FRIGGING PUG......

[El Bandito]

DaFrog, on 27 September 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

lmfao, ENUFF WITH THE TIER NONSENSE IT'S FRIGGING PUG......

The tiers are actually more accurate with Solo-Q than with Group-Q, BTW. Whether tiers are nonsense or not, that's another story.

[InRev]

El Bandito, on 27 September 2015 - 06:31 PM, said:

Then we need to tweet Russ for a higher tier than T1.

Problem is, even a Tier 3 scrub like myself is seeing the same people over and over and over again. For the tier with the largest pool of players from which to pull (the full gamut, baby!), the familiar faces makes me believe that the population simply cannot handle a Super Ultra Double Platinum Masters Hero GGclose League on top of what we already have

[El Bandito]

InRev, on 27 September 2015 - 06:58 PM, said:

Problem is, even a Tier 3 scrub like myself is seeing the same people over and over and over again. For the tier with the largest pool of players from which to pull (the full gamut, baby!), the familiar faces makes me believe that the population simply cannot handle a Super Ultra Double Platinum Masters Hero GGclose League on top of what we already have

Truth to be told, perhaps only PGI has the clearest idea on where to go with the tiers, since they got the numbers.
I guess the best decision is simply to wait.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 September 2015 - 07:01 PM.

[An Atlas]

Mister Blastman, on 27 September 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

You can't if the data is given optionally. There is a tendency to withhold bad figures on forums to pump one's ego. The data must be pulled from a blind pool.

Hence: It grows more accurate

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Kira Onime, on 27 September 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

Pretty sure that was Paul saying that.

I get them so mixed up -.-

Kira Onime, on 27 September 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

Pretty sure that was Paul saying that.

I get them so mixed up -.-