92 replies to this topic

[MeiSooHaityu]

I have never had such a turn-around on a mech like I am having with the Black Knight. When I first tried it, I liked it. I thought it could work. Now that 3 variants are basic'd...OMG! It is so painful.

It did honestly start out fun, and now is a complete pain in the butt to play. I've started paying attention to how many beams strike the ground and I am amazed. I figured if I used side cover instead of hill-humping, it wouldn't be bad. Still, any incline in front of me (and most maps have some terrain) seems to snag most of my shots. It is completely frustrating to lay down so much fire, and at the end of a match, see you did no where near the damage those weapons should have done.

I thought, If there was to be one saving grace, the fast variant was to be it. I saved up for an XL380 and shoved it in there with 1 LPLaser and the rest MPLasers. Good heat efficency, fast speed (83 kph before tweak) and a good alpha. I'm ready!

Drop into a match, CT melts. Torso twisting, CT melts... F**K!

Ok, now I install 3 LLasers and 4 MLasers instead. I need range, have to be more protective of CT....

Striking terrain...striking terrain...Crap! move up a bit...CT fully armored to cored instantly....Darn...fall back....striking terrain...S**t! ...enemy pops out, CT destroyed.

*sigh*

I know the CT will be tweaked in a patch. Maybe the WUB version can return after that (and it goes 90+ when elited), but I just can't see ever using this thing again if the WUBer doesn't pan out.

I mean...I use Catapults, Vindicators, and other sub-parish mechs to decent effect. I'd like to think I can have some fun with something a bit flawed. I can honestly say, I can't see ever using this mech again once elited. The CT can be fixed, but those hardpoints are just too darn borked.

It's a shame. For a humanoid mech it looks amazing and might be one of my favorite humanoid designs. However it feels like it is meant more for Mechbay decoration and less for combat.

I have never changed my mind this fast on a mech. Maybe with some tweaks I may like it again. Im not holding my breath though.

To anyone who didn't get one, you aren't missing out.

/rant

[Widowmaker1981]

Ive stripped all mine of gear and left them invalid in my mechbay. They will probably stay that way for ever, because outside of obscene quirks which i dont think they will get, their hardpoint location makes them the worst mechs in MWO pretty much. Certainly worst heavies.

[Deathlike]

Very rarely, where you can put the BK in a situation to be effective w/o taking damage first.

It amounts to being a "support mech", but that would never fly when even sarna suggests it's supposed to be a front line mech.

In a way, it makes the Awesome look better (it doesn't, but for a moment, even an Awesome pilot could chuckle).

[Mister Blastman]

You describe how I feel about my Ebon Jagers. I know, blasphemy! It carries so much stuff! But it can't tank worth a damn.

[zagibu]

Sounds like OP is mostly used to playing as fire support, which obviously doesn't work well in the BK.

[Yellonet]

I feel the problem is that we only have maps that have lots and lots of small hills and such, this is a problem when you have low hardpoints. Larger scaled flatter terrain would certainly be better for the BK.

[Widowmaker1981]

Yellonet, on 26 September 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

I feel the problem is that we only have maps that have lots and lots of small hills and such, this is a problem when you have low hardpoints. Larger scaled flatter terrain would certainly be better for the BK.

Well, only in that it would be equally crap long range death fest for everyone, lol.

[kapusta11]

It can have high laser alpha, couldn't be that bad.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Yellonet, on 26 September 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

I feel the problem is that we only have maps that have lots and lots of small hills and such, this is a problem when you have low hardpoints. Larger scaled flatter terrain would certainly be better for the BK.

If we had more serious urban maps with a lot of tall buildings that nobody can shoot over then I think the BK would be in a lot better shape relative to the competition.

That said, moving the arm hardpoints to the top and outside surfaces of the arms instead of starting with the bottom would go a surprisingly long way toward boosting it. The torso hardpoints seem good enough, and the head is just fine - the arms are the real stand-out problem.

[Victorion]

kapusta11, on 26 September 2015 - 09:02 AM, said:

It can have high laser alpha, couldn't be that bad.

It's not.

The thing is, people with a bunch of different play styles are trying to shoe horn the BK into them.

Some are working (Like for me, I play mobile strikers a lot, so the BK fits in perfect with that role for me) and others simply aren't (Long range damage support/Face time brawling/Hill Peaking/Side peaking if you don't know how to properly set up your weapon groups).

[FireDog]

Yep, The BK needs some help... It hits hard but between exposing half your mech (seems all CT) and shooting dirt half the time, it is one frustration pile of metal to pilot around. If quirks are not the answer (and I don't believe in super quirks anyhow) , move all hard-points up if possible. It will be a better mech and much more fun to pilot.

[Johny Rocket]

Stay with your team and work the edges of cover. Pretty symmetrical layouts, set your bindings left right. Twist a lot. I have had a few matches north of 700 damage with the 7KNTL. Speed tweak it goes 91.4 kph with the max engine and still comfortably carries 2 LL and 4 MPL. Flank and rip out back torsos.

Edited by Tractor Joe, 26 September 2015 - 09:18 AM.

[Ultimax]

Mister Blastman, on 26 September 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

You describe how I feel about my Ebon Jagers. I know, blasphemy! It carries so much stuff! But it can't tank worth a damn.

The EBJ isn't as tanky as TBR or HBR, but it's no where near Black Knight level.


It has at worst all of it's weapons mounted around cockpit height, with options for mounting weapons literally above your head.



So while's it's CT is easy to hit (and arms are a bit wide), it's still one of the best heavies in the game for hill poking and peeking.

Unlike the BK which can't actually protect it's CT by doing that.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 26 September 2015 - 09:23 AM.

[Victorion]

Tractor Joe, on 26 September 2015 - 09:17 AM, said:

Stay with your team and work the edges of cover. Pretty symmetrical layouts, set your bindings left right. Twist a lot. I have had a few matches north of 700 damage with the 7KNTL. Speed tweak it goes 91.4 kph with the max engine and still comfortably carries 2 LL and 4 MPL. Flank and rip out back torsos.

Yep! That's the role it excells.

Fast moving lances that can take advantage of positioning to take out multiple enemies in short order.

It does NOT perform well in high face time, long duration engagements.

[LordNothing]

blame psr. it has made leveling mechs go from a day and a half fo casual play to two-week long affairs of low score losses.

Edited by LordNothing, 26 September 2015 - 09:25 AM.

[Victorion]

LordNothing, on 26 September 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

blame psr. it has made leveling mechs go from a day and a half fo casual play to two-week long affairs of low score losses.

I already have all of the BK's basiced, and one almost elited...

It's been out 4 days.

Hyperbole is rife when it comes to this thing, jesus.

Edited by Victorion, 26 September 2015 - 09:27 AM.

[Johny Rocket]

Victorion, on 26 September 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

Yep! That's the role it excells.

Fast moving lances that can take advantage of positioning to take out multiple enemies in short order.

It does NOT perform well in high face time, long duration engagements.

I knew it before it released, I dropped the cbills to outfit the KNTL as described before I even tested it. I saved up 20m cb to outfit them on launch day.
I posted a vid of my 1st run in it, never even tried it in testing grounds. 2 kills right off the jump then killed by dual Gauss.
http://mwomercs.com/...uilds-and-vids/

Its a specialist mech and I think once some get elited or after the cb release when you see this mech it will be trouble. They are buffing the ct. In the right hands...

Edit: So far I feel I got my moneys worth. Maulers were worth the money alone. Never really cared about the BK other than to see what it can do balls out. The Crab is coming and I have all kinds of ideas about that one.

Edited by Tractor Joe, 26 September 2015 - 09:41 AM.

[Victorion]

Tractor Joe, on 26 September 2015 - 09:34 AM, said:

I knew it before it released, I dropped the cbills to outfit the KNTL as described before I even tested it. I saved up 20m cb to outfit them on launch day.
I posted a vid of my 1st run in it, never even tried it in testing grounds. 2 kills right off the jump then killed by dual Gauss.
http://mwomercs.com/...uilds-and-vids/

Its a specialist mech and I think once some get elited or after the cb release when you see this mech it will be trouble. They are buffing the ct. In the right hands...

Edit: So far I feel I got my moneys worth. Maulers were worth the money alone. Never really cared about the BK other than to see what it can do balls out. The Crab is coming and I have all kinds of ideas about that one.

Interestingly, the Crab is the Resistance II chassis I'm least interested in.

I dunno if its the kind of anemic hard points, or what, but I don't feel any real pull to add it to my medium stable.

[Alistair Winter]

I hated it at first. Right now, it's by far the best Inner Sphere heavy mech I have. After eliting them, I'm getting ~1.5 W/L ratio and ~3.0 KDR in the pug queue. By my standards, that's a good mech. It was very rough while I was still trying to get Basic skills and didn't have the right builds, but now it's mostly gravy.

Now, I don't own the biggest Inner Sphere meta mechs. I don't have any Wub Thunderbolts or Wub Banshees or whatever the comps are running these days. Clearly, those are even better than the BK. Hell, I'm sure even the Grasshopper is better. But the BK is better than most IS heavies and holds its own very well.

I see a lot of people talking about its CT issues. Maybe I'm just not playing good enough opponents, but at my level of gameplay, it spreads damage extremely well. If I ever lose a component too early, whether it's the arms, CT or STs, it's usually my own fault.

My builds, for anyone interested:
BL-6-KNT: 5xML, 2xPPC (right arm), 2xAMS, XL350
BL-6B-KNT: 8xMPL, 1xML, STD300
BL-7-KNT: 2xLL, 2xPPC, STD300 (not a great build, but just nice for the sake of variation)

The 6B is already the best one, even though I haven't finished eliting it. This was expected, as it's a fairly meta pulse vomit build. Normally I wouldn't use that kind of build, but I feel like the super-gimped hardpoint location gives me an excuse. I may change the build for something less meta if it turns out to be too good, though I doubt that's going to be a problem.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 26 September 2015 - 11:27 AM.

[Apnu]

Victorion, on 26 September 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

It's not.

The thing is, people with a bunch of different play styles are trying to shoe horn the BK into them.

Some are working (Like for me, I play mobile strikers a lot, so the BK fits in perfect with that role for me) and others simply aren't (Long range damage support/Face time brawling/Hill Peaking/Side peaking if you don't know how to properly set up your weapon groups).

^^^^ This is it.

Not all mechs work for all play styles. The BK is an energy brawler. Not that an energy brawler is optimal, especially with the BK's hardpoint locations, but that's what kind of mech it is. It does well if the player plays the mech to its strengths, not the player's strengths.

Tina did say they are going to look at the BK's hitboxes and fix the CT issue, so there's hope yet for the mech.