56 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Khobai, on 29 September 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

they have reflective armor

...still more effective than AC2s.

[FupDup]

Mcgral18, on 29 September 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

...still more effective than AC2s.

Sadly, yup. Even if you cut the laser damage in half due to reflective armor, it STILL out-damages the AC/2 per hit. This doesn't even factor in the possibility of missing due to projectiles instead of being hitscan (yes, 2000 m/s is fast but aircraft are really fast too).

[Karamarka]

When are they going to add ammo types?

or the slug mechanic to clan AC?

Thnx.

[LordNothing]

Karamarka, on 29 September 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

When are they going to add ammo types?

or the slug mechanic to clan AC?

Thnx.

they are not. they arent even thinking about it.

[El Bandito]

Obligatory:



I really am.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 September 2015 - 04:49 PM.

[RedDevil]

200dmg/ton sounds great

[Nothing Whatsoever]

At 0.5 Heat, that's an HPs of 0.70, so still hotter than an AC/5, but better.

I'd rather see it go to 0.4 Heat for 0.56 HPS.

[Khobai]

FupDup, on 29 September 2015 - 04:23 PM, said:

Pics or it didn't happen.

AC/2 is his only weakness

[GorlockTheDestroyer]

Jman5, on 29 September 2015 - 08:20 AM, said:

No more mucking around, no more pie in the sky ideas. Here are simple changes that will modestly improve Ballistic weapons without breaking anything.

Ammo Change

Problem: Tonnage. They're too heavy when you factor all the weapons, ammo, and CASE(?).

Solution: Add more ammo/ton. The goal I would aim for is 200 damage per ton of Ammo. Similar to what you did for the AC/10 a few months back. Don't want to bother mathing it out? No problem! I'll do all the work for you.

-----------------------------------------------

• AC/2: 75 -> 100
  
• AC/5: 30 -> 40
  
• UAC/5: 30 -> 40
  
• AC/10: unchanged
  
• LB10X: 15 -> 20
  
• AC/20: 7 -> 10
  
• M-Gun: 2,000 -> 2,500

-----------------------------------------------

• Clan UAC/2: 75 -> 100
  
• Clan UAC/5: 60 -> 80
  
• Clan UAC/10: Unchanged
  
• Clan UAC/20: 28 -> 40
  
• Clan M-Gun: 2,000 -> 2,500

------------------------------------------------

• LB2X: 75 -> 100
  
• LB5X: 30 -> 40
  
• LB10X: 15 -> 20
  
• LB20X: 7 -> 10

This may not seem like much, but what it does is improve the tonnage efficiency by about 1/2 - 1 ton per weapon. Not a crazy change, but it helps mitigate the primary problem with ballistics. This is also the only way to address the tonnage issue without breaking stock builds.





AC/2, UAC/2, and LB2X Change:

Problem: They're way too hot!

Solution: Change heat from 1 -> 0.5

LBX Change

Problem: They can't really compete with other autocannons and if you want spread damage, you might as well use an SRM 6.

Solution: Increase pellet damage from 1 -> 1.3 (LB10x would do 13 damage now)

Note: You'll notice that I left out Gauss. For the time being I think we should leave it's ammo/ton where it is.
Note2: You will also notice that the new LBX damage increase breaks the 200 dmg/ton guideline. I think when you factor in the the spread and missing it all evens out.

Bonus Fix:
Give AC/2 and AC/2 derivatives Weapon Cooldown Modules please!

I rarely post in this cesspool. This simple freaking idea is worth the login. PGI will never listen.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 29 September 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

AC/2 is his only weakness

If we shoot that ship down, will this eliminate the Paulgorithm once and for all?

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

We really should post one of these discussions the next time we see a dev actively patrolling the forum, just saying.

[Scar Glamour]

Ballistics don't need more ammo, they never did. You are not supposed to be boating an unholy amount of ballistic weapons and be able to shoot them non-stop throughout the match.

AC/20 and /10 need faster RoF and projectile speed, that's where they lack most terribly. It is even more evident with Clan ballistic brawlers made obsolete by deadly, pinpoint, and relatively cold cSPL builds.

LB-Xs suffer from too much spread even at a third of their effective range. They can do well without the additional crit. Ballistics are way too heavy to perform solely as a coup-de-gras weapon anyways.

AC/5 and UAC/5 are doing just fine where they are.

As for AC/2 I am not sure it is even salvageable. But less heat won't hurt.

[Chuck Jager]

Nightmare1, on 29 September 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

I would add: Remove all Ghost Heat from ballistics. It's still present on some calibers and really needs to disappear.

You do not want this for clan uacs 10s and 20s.
They are devastating in the right time and place. The overheat keeps them in check

[Lyoto Machida]

Homeskilit, on 29 September 2015 - 04:02 PM, said:

Definitely viable ideas that should be tested, the great thing about the numbers game is you can keep tweaking them until you get the right balance.

Not sure how that's relevant to this discussion, since PGI doesn't touch weapon balance for MONTHS at a time. I'm not talking 1 or 2 month stretches, either...

[Night Thastus]

These changes are small, reasonable, well-thought out and overall good.

They level out the ballistics playing feild, making them a much more viable weapon. They make AC/2's not so garbage (still pretty bad, but not AS bad), and they even help LB-X's.

No weird, contrived mechanics, just small, elegant tweaks.

I like it.

Let's see if it ever happens.

PGI is a bit wrapped up with quirks at the moment.

Why actually balance the weapons when you can just get entangled in a gigantic mess of quirks?

[Xmith]

Jman5, on 29 September 2015 - 08:20 AM, said:

No more mucking around, no more pie in the sky ideas. Here are simple changes that will modestly improve Ballistic weapons without breaking anything.

Ammo Change

Problem: Tonnage. They're too heavy when you factor all the weapons, ammo, and CASE(?).

Solution: Add more ammo/ton. The goal I would aim for is 200 damage per ton of Ammo. Similar to what you did for the AC/10 a few months back. Don't want to bother mathing it out? No problem! I'll do all the work for you.

-----------------------------------------------

• AC/2: 75 -> 100
  
• AC/5: 30 -> 40
  
• UAC/5: 30 -> 40
  
• AC/10: unchanged
  
• LB10X: 15 -> 20
  
• AC/20: 7 -> 10
  
• M-Gun: 2,000 -> 2,500

-----------------------------------------------

• Clan UAC/2: 75 -> 100
  
• Clan UAC/5: 60 -> 80
  
• Clan UAC/10: Unchanged
  
• Clan UAC/20: 28 -> 40
  
• Clan M-Gun: 2,000 -> 2,500

------------------------------------------------

• LB2X: 75 -> 100
  
• LB5X: 30 -> 40
  
• LB10X: 15 -> 20
  
• LB20X: 7 -> 10

This may not seem like much, but what it does is improve the tonnage efficiency by about 1/2 - 1 ton per weapon. Not a crazy change, but it helps mitigate the primary problem with ballistics. This is also the only way to address the tonnage issue without breaking stock builds.





AC/2, UAC/2, and LB2X Change:

Problem: They're way too hot!

Solution: Change heat from 1 -> 0.5

LBX Change

Problem: They can't really compete with other autocannons and if you want spread damage, you might as well use an SRM 6.

Solution: Increase pellet damage from 1 -> 1.3 (LB10x would do 13 damage now)

Note: You'll notice that I left out Gauss. For the time being I think we should leave it's ammo/ton where it is.
Note2: You will also notice that the new LBX damage increase breaks the 200 dmg/ton guideline. I think when you factor in the the spread and missing it all evens out.

Bonus Fix:
Give AC/2 and AC/2 derivatives Weapon Cooldown Modules please!

Memories are really short around here.

Before the 6/2 patch, people were complaining of having a hard time with ballistics. Also during this time, experienced ultra-ballistic mech pilots were ripping other mechs to shreds.

PGI killed two birds with one stone with the 6/2 patch, reduction in volley for ACs. I didn't have a problem with ballistics but people swear the reduction in volley or speeding up of rounds per shot helped. The reduction in volley increased heat which was designed to nerf the ultra-ballistic mech a bit, imo.

The 6/2 patch was not good enough for some people. The ballistics, Clans in particular, were still to difficult to use and the experienced ultra-ballistic mech pilots were still shredding up armor.

The 7/7 patch reduced ammo rounds per volley this time around to try and nerf the ultra-ballistic mechs even more.

It has been a great success for PGI based on my stats. So why do you think PGI would buff ballistics when they were nerfed back in June and July?

[GrimRiver]

Yes, just yes. My builds always come up a bit short in ammo and I'll bet it'll make AC's the cool kid again.