8 replies to this topic

[Pineapple Salad]

The problem:

Everyone who's played more than a couple dozen of matches should have realized by now that something is wrong with the ferro-fibrous upgrade.

Mainly, why would you ever take ferro-fibrous over endo-steel, and why is FF often the default upgrade on mechs, while endo-steel isn't.

Both upgrades only work as a weight-saving option at a cost of critical slots. ES always makes the mech lighter by 5% of the maximum weight. So for example an atlas gets 5 tons off for having endo-steel, while a locust loses 1. FF works by reducing the weight of mech's equipped armor by 12%. So an atlas with max armor, of 19.2t gets a reduction of barely over 2t from FF and a locust with 4.3 tons of max armor loses a miniscule 0.46t, not even enough for a single machine gun. Not only that, but FF loses effectiveness if a mech is not at full armor, because the weight reduction applies only to the armor mounted on the mech.

See, why would anyone in their right mind choose only the weaker of the two upgrades with identical function and penalty?

The suggestion:

The in-game description of Ferro-Fibrous states that it gives 12% more protection per ton, which is technically correct, because you can mount the same amount of armor as you could with standard armor, but it weighs less. What if it also allowed you to put 12% more armor on your mech, so at max armor you would weigh the same as without FF but had 12% more armor? That way the player would have an interesting choice that could some times at least make the FF an viable option, instead of taking only ES and an extra heatsink or two, for example.

[Karl Streiger]

Pineapple Salad, on 28 September 2015 - 03:53 AM, said:

Mainly, why would you ever take ferro-fibrous over endo-steel, and why is FF often the default upgrade on mechs, while endo-steel isn't.

While you are absolutely right about the "nonsense" of FF - the only reason is lore based: it was more simple to remove a Mechs Standard Armor and replace it with FF - while it would need a complete new factory to produce an Endosteel Frame for a Mech (strictly ES on a Mech = its a complete new Chassis)

So very strictly spoken it should not be possible to upgrade/degrade Endosteel.

[Pineapple Salad]

I am aware of the lore side of things, and also how it works in the tabletop. MWO however is not a single player story driven RPG, and it is also not a tabletop game. The ruleset also needs to adapt to fit the game type. Mechwarrior games have never been especially concerned about the lore or tabletop rules before.

[Karl Streiger]

Pineapple Salad, on 28 September 2015 - 04:48 AM, said:

I am aware of the lore side of things, and also how it works in the tabletop. MWO however is not a single player story driven RPG, and it is also not a tabletop game. The ruleset also needs to adapt to fit the game type. Mechwarrior games have never been especially concerned about the lore or tabletop rules before.

well but those MW games (2/2Mercs/3) - did use the same formula for FF

[wanderer]

Actually, the reason is simple in straight up powergaming terms- FF is supposed to be "diminishing returns", and yes- endo-steel should always be on there before ferro. They're deliberately not equal because they can be stacked.

[Durant Carlyle]

Ferro-Fibrous Armor doesn't need to be fixed. It is as it should be -- a way to save tonnage from standard armor.

And anything that would allow a 'Mech to have more than the maximum armor would quickly become mandatory on every 'Mech that could fit it.

So ... no.

[Gaussfather]

I agree Ferro Fibrous only works for all energy mechs and lights (which are normally all energy mechs) because it stacks on Endo-steel and you just don't have the space to mount XL, ballistics and lrms with ammo. Unless you have a Clan mech.

I think mounting it should allow you to increase the armor amount (not just weight savings). BUT I also remember a mech warrior game from the past (don't know which one) that gave you different armor options that decreased laser damage or ballistic damage... so for me that would be nice incentive to use Ferro Fibrous if, e.g., it decreased laser damage by 20%. Maybe it melts at higher temp or whatever excuse we want to use to make the game fun...

[Durant Carlyle]

Standard is one type of armor. Ferro-Fibrous is another.

There are other armor types...

Reflective (a.k.a. Glazed, Reflec), more effective against lasers.
Reactive (a.k.a. Blazer), more effective against ballistics.

...and more.

[wanderer]

Yep. Right now, timelinewise there's standard, ferro, and hardened armor. Reflective and reactive come later down the line, along with a ton of other new gear.

Hardened would actually allow doubling of armor protection (at the cost of a bit of speed and agility.) and came into significant use in 3047. Amusingly enough, it only works on non-Omnimechs.