137 replies to this topic

[Sarlic]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 02 October 2015 - 08:12 AM, said:

Welcome to the dark side. Glad you see the truth finally. Just took yu 2 years?

Not really.

There's a difference between bashing and being realistic and skeptical.

I'm pretty skeptical when it comes to PGI. But i don't go bash them in the ground for each little thing.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Sarlic, on 02 October 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

Not really.

There's a difference between bashing and being realistic and skeptical.

I'm pretty skeptical when it comes to PGI. But i don't go bash them in the ground for each little thing.

aha interresting. If calling this game minimal viable, what else is that than bashing?

[Ghogiel]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 02 October 2015 - 08:25 AM, said:

aha interresting. If calling this game minimal viable, what else is that than bashing?

I'd call it stating facts as expressed in PGI's own words. But some might call it bashing. :shrug:

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Ghogiel, on 02 October 2015 - 08:27 AM, said:

I'd call it stating facts as expressed in PGI's own words. But some might call it bashing. :shrug:

when did pgi say that mwo is a minimal viable product? It would be the same as shooting in your own foot. Pic/ link or it never happened

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 02 October 2015 - 08:31 AM.

[Ghogiel]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 02 October 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

when did pgi say that mwo is a minimal viable product? It would be the same as shooting in your own foot. Pic/ link or it never happened

http://mwomercs.com/...dpost__p__74805

pwnt

[Sarlic]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 02 October 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

when did pgi say that mwo is a minimal viable product? It would be the same as shooting in your own foot. Pic/ link or it never happened

http://mwomercs.com/...dpost__p__74805

Edit: Ninja'd by Ghogiel!

Edited by Sarlic, 02 October 2015 - 08:35 AM.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Sarlic, on 02 October 2015 - 08:33 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...dpost__p__74805

Edit: Ninja'd by Ghogiel!

Wow, i wonder why they needed 5 millions from the founders to create a minimal viable product o.O

i gt say, saying that as a ceo abouzt your own game is pretty stupid when you call it at the same time AAA

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 02 October 2015 - 08:43 AM.

[Ghogiel]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 02 October 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

Wow, i wonder why they needed 5 millions from the founders to create a minimal viable product o.O

i gt say, saying that as a ceo abouzt your own game is pretty stupid when you call it at the same time AAA

Yeah no wondering why people are a tad disillusioned with the direction of the game.

[CDLord HHGD]

RedDragon, on 02 October 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

Alex should just change over to HBS. They'd have a lot more use for his talents.

Seems to me they are sharing him just fine.

[TexAce]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 02 October 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

Wow, i wonder why they needed 5 millions from the founders to create a minimal viable product o.O

i gt say, saying that as a ceo abouzt your own game is pretty stupid when you call it at the same time AAA

you wonder because none of you have experience in what it cost to build a freaking game. That's the reason.

Absolutely no one has a clue what of an effort it is.

[Sarlic]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 02 October 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

Wow, i wonder why they needed 5 millions from the founders to create a minimal viable product o.O

i gt say, saying that as a ceo abouzt your own game is pretty stupid when you call it at the same time AAA

I agree though.

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 02 October 2015 - 08:25 AM, said:

aha interresting. If calling this game minimal viable, what else is that than bashing?

I can be pretty skeptical.
I never liked their concept in the first place.

PGI is did in my opinion -reasonable- at developing this year since they dumped IGP. Opinions mag disagree though. But to me it feels they like to implent everything half arsed. Which describes exactly the minimal viable product.

Look at C.W. for example. Beta 1 was just plain-out awful. Terrible state to release such a thing. And now we have Beta 2 tag on it; still terrible.

I mean it's just one of these of examples which is half-done and then move on to the next project. But they do pump out mech packs because they need more income to finish their half ready projects. Balance-wise they're missing experience.

The remake of some maps are a nice addition but that's no content. All efforts so far have been minimal. But thats my opinion.

I still feel the same way and that's PGI has in my opinion a terrible management.

Edited by Sarlic, 02 October 2015 - 08:51 AM.

[Rebas Kradd]

sigh

* MWO is no longer a minimum viable product. Minimum viable products don't get new mechlabs, new iterations of maps, or regional servers. That's not the definition of MVP at all. They haven't been in the MVP mindset for years.

* PGI has released content at or above the scale OP has specified all year. They have produced a new mechlab. They've released a new tutorial. We've seen major map upgrades. We've got servers worldwide. VOIP and chat lobbies. These things had every right to come first. I'm as hungry for new forms of gameplay as the OP, but the recent goodies have not been insignificant themselves.

* If you want PGI to fold, then yes, discourage the mech packs. That's all that will happen. You won't suddenly get PGI going "Gasp! Oh noes! We've been misallocating!" and rushing to replace their 3D modellers with coding engineers for gamemodes. It would create mutiny in the studio, and months would be needed to train up the programmers anyway. If you want to actually get that new content, then buy mechs. CW Phase 3 won't be made by devs working for free out of the goodness of their hearts. PGI found something that worked financially (mech packs) and capitalized on it. It's not a conspiracy theory.

* PGI's mech creation people aren't qualified to create other stuff. Again, if you'd like to see more staff hired for gamemode work (and I would), buy the Warhammer.

The primary problem with MWO is absolutely the gamemodes and their bad design philosophy towards them (see my sig for a refreshing alternative). But you're asking them to switch from tangible money-making content to intangible ("let's hope people buy Hero mechs because of this other good stuff") processes. Few studios are going to do that.

The ratio of mech content to other content is way too high, yes. But the way out isn't to buy fewer mechs. It's to buy more.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 02 October 2015 - 08:51 AM.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

TexAce, on 02 October 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

you wonder because none of you have experience in what it cost to build a freaking game. That's the reason.

Absolutely no one has a clue what of an effort it is.

Most of us dont fersur but we also see how other companies produce a 10x better game with like 1-2 million from kickstarter

Oh and those games dont have to spam you every 3 months with a grabdeal

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 02 October 2015 - 08:51 AM.

[TexAce]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 02 October 2015 - 08:49 AM, said:

Most of us dont fersur but we also see how other companies produce a 10x better game with like 1-2 million from kickstarter

Oh and those games dont have to spam you every 3 months with a grabdeal

Perhaps what you call 10x better I call 100x worse?

Your opinion is your opinion, no one - especially not the devs - have to care a dime about it

[COOL HANDS]

Night Thastus, on 02 October 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

Hey all!

You may have just heard about the release of the Warhammer for pre-order.

Some of you might be quite excited, and that's understandable. Unseen are always something to enjoy.

However, this is proving to be a truly slippery slope with PGI.

There are three other 'Mech packs that still haven't fully released yet. (And these are just the pre-order release dates, not even the c-bill or MC releases!)

Resistance 2:

• Crab: October 6th, 2015
  
• Wolfhound: October 20th, 2015

Origins IIC:

• Orion IIC : December 15th
  
• Highlander IIC : December 15th
  
• Hunchback IIC : December 15th
  
• Jenner IIC : December 15th

Marauder:

• Marauder (all variants): December 1st 2015

On top of all that un-released content, they pile on:


Warhammer:

• Warhammer (all variants): January 16th 2016

I might be alone here, but I don't like this. They are dedicating far too much time and effort into 'Mech packs, and far too little into new content.


I've been playing since closed beta, and sadly, with the sole exception of CW (which is currently dead, RIP), we haven't gotten a single new game-mode.

Don't get me wrong, there has been new content, but it's been slow, buggy, or otherwise held-back.

When is Phase III of CW again? Wasn't that supposed to be months ago? Now it's scheduled for around mid 2016? What is this garbage?

What happened to the new assault game-mode?

What happened to the leadership boards?

What happened to PVE content?

What happened to scout missions?

What happened to the steam release?

When are we going to see the "autodetect: NO" screens finally begone? They say they have the tech to do PiP (Picture in picture) now!

When are flamers/MGs/AC-2's going to get a balance pass?

Why not dedicate some of this time to fixing the ammo-switching on LB-X's?

When will ballistics get some help? (200 damage per ton to start, 1.3x damage per pellet on LB-X, etc)

When is this rebalance finally going to get another PTS? When will it finally be released?

The bottom line is that I feel like far too much of PGI's resources are being pushed at 'Mech development and sales.

Don't get me wrong, I like new 'Mechs. I really do. However, when those come at the cost of gameplay, it hits me wrong. I'm aware that there are "teams" who work on different parts of the game, perhaps one for art, one for sound, etc, etc. However, it feels like somehow all of their time is being used up on this god-damn cashgrab.

And you know who's fault it is?

Partially PGI's, for taking advantage, but more ours for buying the packs.

I know the grind is real, everyone. I'm aware some of these 'Mechs might be very close to you. However, I think we need to send a message with our wallets that 'Mech packs are NOT number 1 priority, and that gameplay should come first!

I agree with you but you know what happens in this forum community if we don't cosign on everything PGI dose your labeled as somebody that complains too much. But hopefully this balance pass addresses some balance and game play issues but I'm not holding my breath.

[Bloody]

yeah well, they do not have to do much as long as folk continue to fund their minimum effort with Mech packs

[Flaming oblivion]

Their not making any significant money if any at all nowadays, I would bet heavily on it.

Fact is they have to keep creating mechs to make money , They dont fix balance ,Innfact in some cases they appear to break balance to get some sales. They dont add significant content CW in how many years? Just for it to turn out to be a joke? Lol

Their losing the die hard battle tech fans because of the state of (I was about to say almost but it isnt right) every aspect of the game and disilusion.

New players will join see a game in such poor shape and leave in most cases. The ones that will stay will more then likely get the mechs they need nothing more, Since if they are not already here not a big reason to buy mechs . As their not huge battletech fans.

I think the games profits are probably going down fast at best.

And i think steam will be the last desperate attempt to steady the ship.

Edited by Flaming oblivion, 02 October 2015 - 08:58 AM.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

TexAce, on 02 October 2015 - 08:54 AM, said:

Perhaps what you call 10x better I call 100x worse?

Your opinion is your opinion, no one - especially not the devs - have to care a dime about it

Thats why bt games goal is only 2.5m for now and it promises you already much more mwo will ever achieve. nice try

[Lykaon]

Night Thastus, on 02 October 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

Hey all!

You may have just heard about the release of the Warhammer for pre-order.

Some of you might be quite excited, and that's understandable. Unseen are always something to enjoy.

However, this is proving to be a truly slippery slope with PGI.

There are three other 'Mech packs that still haven't fully released yet. (And these are just the pre-order release dates, not even the c-bill or MC releases!)

Resistance 2:

• Crab: October 6th, 2015
  
• Wolfhound: October 20th, 2015

Origins IIC:

• Orion IIC : December 15th
  
• Highlander IIC : December 15th
  
• Hunchback IIC : December 15th
  
• Jenner IIC : December 15th

Marauder:

• Marauder (all variants): December 1st 2015

On top of all that un-released content, they pile on:


Warhammer:

• Warhammer (all variants): January 16th 2016

I might be alone here, but I don't like this. They are dedicating far too much time and effort into 'Mech packs, and far too little into new content.


I've been playing since closed beta, and sadly, with the sole exception of CW (which is currently dead, RIP), we haven't gotten a single new game-mode.

Don't get me wrong, there has been new content, but it's been slow, buggy, or otherwise held-back.

When is Phase III of CW again? Wasn't that supposed to be months ago? Now it's scheduled for around mid 2016? What is this garbage?

What happened to the new assault game-mode?

What happened to the leadership boards?

What happened to PVE content?

What happened to scout missions?

What happened to the steam release?

When are we going to see the "autodetect: NO" screens finally begone? They say they have the tech to do PiP (Picture in picture) now!

When are flamers/MGs/AC-2's going to get a balance pass?

Why not dedicate some of this time to fixing the ammo-switching on LB-X's?

When will ballistics get some help? (200 damage per ton to start, 1.3x damage per pellet on LB-X, etc)

When is this rebalance finally going to get another PTS? When will it finally be released?

The bottom line is that I feel like far too much of PGI's resources are being pushed at 'Mech development and sales.

Don't get me wrong, I like new 'Mechs. I really do. However, when those come at the cost of gameplay, it hits me wrong. I'm aware that there are "teams" who work on different parts of the game, perhaps one for art, one for sound, etc, etc. However, it feels like somehow all of their time is being used up on this god-damn cashgrab.

And you know who's fault it is?

Partially PGI's, for taking advantage, but more ours for buying the packs.

I know the grind is real, everyone. I'm aware some of these 'Mechs might be very close to you. However, I think we need to send a message with our wallets that 'Mech packs are NOT number 1 priority, and that gameplay should come first!

The people who model and rig mechs are not the same people who design maps or develope CW or new game modes so I don't see what the issue is.

If PGI had to take developers off one task to complete the other you may have a ligitamate concern.

Also sales of mech packs is how this free to play game generates revenue to pay for the developers who actually do the things you want done.

[Spleenslitta]

There is one thing the OP forgets. Mechs are not made by programmers but by modelers that use advanced 3D to make the mech.
So new gamemodes are not delayed at all by all the new mechs coming out since an entirelly different set of skills are needed to make gamemodes.

But yes....i think we could use less mechs and more maps which falls pretty much under the same category of skills.
Even if it doesn't the modelers could still make new buildings for the new maps instead of new mechs. To top it all of making a building is much easier than making a mech.
Buildings don't need to be so detailed and they don't move. So if they didn't make the Marauder/Warhammer we could probably have 3-5 new maps instead.