30 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Quote

Lower tier players would end up being those who refuse to adjust to their team's dynamics and play a 1 trick pony type of gameplay.

http://mwomercs.com/...-tiers-and-psr/

lol they really hate us


j/k XD

[El Bandito]

I knew that fact ever since ECM was introduced as is.

[GeneralArmchair]

Weren't they supposed to nerf ECM by halving the radius of its umbrella? What ever happened to that?

[Sputty]

The could times LRMs were good they pretty much killed the game. Fighting a battle of 'get lock' and fight out in the most obnoxious way ever caused a ton of people to stop playing. I doubt LRMs will ever be considered a top weapon system for a large number of reasons. One being that it allows indirect fire, another being that they don't require aiming.

They are a weapon for people who have trouble aiming and because of that they will be used by new people until they realize they can just use regular weapons and people who are unable or refuse to use other weapons.

[Lyoto Machida]

Sputty, on 24 September 2015 - 11:15 PM, said:

The could times LRMs were good they pretty much killed the game. Fighting a battle of 'get lock' and fight out in the most obnoxious way ever caused a ton of people to stop playing. I doubt LRMs will ever be considered a top weapon system for a large number of reasons. One being that it allows indirect fire, another being that they don't require aiming.

They are a weapon for people who have trouble aiming and because of that they will be used by new people until they realize they can just use regular weapons and people who are unable or refuse to use other weapons.

Get rid of indirect lock without TAG/UAV/NARC and give me flat trajectory LRMs with 500m/s speed with no locks when target is in line of sight. Let TAG direct LRMs to specific parts of a mech.

People would still complain.

[ZippySpeedMonkey]

Well, this does go a long way to explaining the tier rating I got...

But then Buddah, you've played with me quite a bit, and know my philosophy as far as how I play the game is concerned...

If PGI wants me to continue to maul the lower tiers, so be it, it's free space bucks for me...

Well, this does go a long way to explaining the tier rating I got...

But then Buddah, you've played with me quite a bit, and know my philosophy as far as how I play the game is concerned...

It's free space bucks for me...

Edited by ZippySpeedMonkey, 25 September 2015 - 01:53 AM.

[Vellron2005]

Yaay.. another "LRM's are (fill in blank space)_ _ _ _ _ _ _ " thread...

P.S.

Edited by Vellron2005, 25 September 2015 - 02:05 AM.

[Chados]

Well, what I think Paul is getting at, when he says "one trick pony," are boaters in general and people who don't adapt to what the team is doing. I love my LRMs. But I don't rely exclusively on them when I carry them and I don't even carry them always, because I'm trying to learn and improve with other modes. And I find that packing two weapon types serves me best-your mileage may vary and if boating works for you, more power to you.

I find I'm most effective with LRM when they're part of a combined arms approach. They add another dimension to fire support, but not the only one because they are just too limited-their engagement envelope is too tightly defined and they are useless on the IS side inside 180 meters or outside 1000 meters, and limited on the Clan side inside 180 meters. But they can kill a target in the open, it's happened to me before and I defy anyone to claim that it's only bad players that die to LRMs-when you're getting focused down by four enemy 'mechs all spamming LRM5s on chain fire from four different directions on Caustic Valley in the open, and you're in an assault 'mech moving at 70kph 400 meters from the nearest cover because you were trying to get to a teammate in trouble, you don't have a lot of options and it seems they seek the CT with a vengeance. On the other hand, Lord help them if I get even five seconds of respite to clear the cockpit shake and blindness from all the flashes because AC20 vengeance shall be mine.

And it's a bald-faced lie to claim that T1 players don't use LRMs, because I have faced top teams including 228 and SJR in group queue-when I run with the team, my rock-bottom PSR is irrelevant-and they use them all the time. In large numbers. And very effectively, some of the best LRMing I've ever seen. I've seen them used routinely by the Clans in CW, again during unit drops. The last Marik-v-Clans CW event? They rained like a summer shower in every single map, and only good use of overhead cover and packing radar deprivation put up an umbrella against the storm. The main ones whining about "only bads use LRMs" are folks like Captain Tryhard and his effervescent sidekick Metagirl, broadcasting propaganda over VoIP from North Tier 4 and harassing the T4 crew after being first to fight and first to die in the caldera atop Mount Doom.

[Zerberus]

These threads will probably never end well...

You always get some elitist "Lurmz needz no Skillz" whiner that complains because he doesn`t have what it takes to get the frak out of the rain, usually in no small part becasue he`s too 1337 to even try them, therefore he has no actual working comprehension of the skills needed to truly be effective with them, and as a result has no clue how to actually counter them.

That`s why those of us that actively use and understand the system and it`s mechanics rarely if ever get hit with them, and when we do it`s often on purpose to defend a teammate or because we know we can calmly tank the little piddlyass bit of damage they actually do instead of running around like a chicken with it`s head cutt off sqwawking about how the sky is falling.

And then you have people that DO understand the systems, well as the all of others, and are very effective with them... a damn lot of us will tear your tactically inept ass apart in a 4ppc warhawk just as easily, if not faster, we just prefer options. Which is why very few of us take only LRMS, even though we`ll generally fill the racks.

Or as in my case we take them specifically becasue we know that some kid is going to go into full-bore mental meltdown as soon as he sees the first missile or hears the warning, and thereby weaken his team with his temper tantrum. Psychological warfare is also warfare, and it`s much more cost effective than shooting things. Practically all of my PUG mechs have at least an LRM 5 very literally just to piss people off (the guaranteed assists are nice, too, since AMS is "a waste" and cover is overrated.

Heck, I´ve been known to fire LRMs into buildings and mountainsides on purpose just to scare the crap out of the guy on the other side of the map into thinking he`s about to get rained on, and 90% of the time it works like a charm, he panics, runs out into the open, and either my team or myself ruin his day. And if he does stay cool, slowly modv around to fget behind him, tossing 5 misiles into nothing everty few seconds, and when you know there`s no cover from your current angle you unleash the Rainmaker... and that reallly pisses them off "But i was in cover!!! LRMS are OP!! NERF, NERF, NERF!!!!" Yeah, you were in cover....3 minutes ago, before I started moving around to your back. Maybe standing still for 1/5th of the fight wasn`t such a good idea aftter all?

Not to mention the huge amount of equipment that`s available in the game that counters LRMs.... We have modules, we have AMS, we have AMS modules, not to mention the Jesus Box... but most you never mount any of it and proceed walk through the middle of a lake at 45 clicks, instead of using cover to advance or using your brain at all.

This redundant and superfluous discussion has been around since closed beta, and the only time when the whiners were even remotely satisfied was when all missiles were nerfed into the ground due to unwanted splash damage...becasue then they could stand in one place, jump, fire a huge PPFLD alpha, wait an hour to cool down, and repeat. And they`ve been pissed off and whining twice as hard ever since they stopped being able to play Duck Hunt online due to JJ shake and the eventual return of LRMs.

Bottom line: if you`re so ultramegagood and all lrm users are just useless noobs, yet you`re still dying in the rain, then you`re probably not as 1337 as you thought.

Edited by Zerberus, 25 September 2015 - 03:04 AM.

[Paigan]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 24 September 2015 - 10:04 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...-tiers-and-psr/

lol they really hate us


j/k XD

Try to understand the sentence you quoted.
LRMs can still be devastating (seeing it occasionally) due to their unique tactical potential IF used properly.
What they should NOT be is an always-OP-i-win-button kind of weapon.

ECM is too powerful at the moment, that's the problem.
That does NOT mean that LRMs are too weak.
Don't mix up different things.

[Livewyr]

Broader consideration: Why does one have to be at different Tiers to use certain weapons?


...PGI doesn't hate LRMs, they're just in love with ECM. (You can tell by all the bandaids, instead of the simpler fix.)

No, they hate LRMs..

Edited by Livewyr, 25 September 2015 - 04:05 AM.

[Freeman 52]

It seems to me being a "one trick pony" PSR-wise is about not working with your team. I have played with LRM15s and LRM5s in my Trebs and not only can I support my team's brawlers, I can also get lots of damage (good for PSR), many assists (also good), even some kills! Just yesterday I was the last one standing against a Raven who after 3 minutes of trading laser shots made the mistake of sneaking across the water in River City after its ECM was gone. Dead teammates who were spectating called it over voip, and LRM5s won the day. Cheers all around! Everyone's PSR went up.

On that note, as a relatively new player I don't think LRMs are nerfed. Perhaps compared to some golden age I missed, but they work well for me: multiple ECMs can screw you, yes, but you can also seriously screw slow mechs moving in the open or brawling with your teammates. I have only encountered a handful of matches where LRMs were rendered useless or I was tracked and cored by a sneaky light. But that seems fair to me.

[Novakaine]

GeneralArmchair, on 24 September 2015 - 11:10 PM, said:

Weren't they supposed to nerf ECM by halving the radius of its umbrella? What ever happened to that?

They lied.
But Novakaine don't give..........
Sorry gotta keep it pg.
Novakaine gonna use em anyway.
Novakaine don't lurm from the back.
Novakaine be up front and center.
Rocketeers gotta represent.
Rocket Rain baby!!!!!

[Screech]

GeneralArmchair, on 24 September 2015 - 11:10 PM, said:

Weren't they supposed to nerf ECM by halving the radius of its umbrella? What ever happened to that?

I am not sure why the change was considered a nerf to ECM. It also was to lower the counter effect from BAP and these changes were going to be a huge buff to ECM brawlers. If you thought ACH with small pulse lasers were bad before wait till you have to play against ones that your first warning of them will be the stripping of all you rear armor.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

GeneralArmchair, on 24 September 2015 - 11:10 PM, said:

Weren't they supposed to nerf ECM by halving the radius of its umbrella? What ever happened to that?

They maybe figured out that was in fact a buff because ppl would be dying before they realized there was even a mech behind them?

...and wow way too many ppl thinking a joke thread was serious

Sputty, on 24 September 2015 - 11:15 PM, said:

The could times LRMs were good they pretty much killed the game. Fighting a battle of 'get lock' and fight out in the most obnoxious way ever caused a ton of people to stop playing. I doubt LRMs will ever be considered a top weapon system for a large number of reasons. One being that it allows indirect fire, another being that they don't require aiming.

They are a weapon for people who have trouble aiming and because of that they will be used by new people until they realize they can just use regular weapons and people who are unable or refuse to use other weapons.

preeeeeeeeeety sure more ppl left because of the year plus poptarting gauss/ppc meta than any EXTREMELY short time that LRMs were actually viable

Paigan, on 25 September 2015 - 02:49 AM, said:

Try to understand the sentence you quoted.
LRMs can still be devastating (seeing it occasionally) due to their unique tactical potential IF used properly.
What they should NOT be is an always-OP-i-win-button kind of weapon.

ECM is too powerful at the moment, that's the problem.
That does NOT mean that LRMs are too weak.
Don't mix up different things.

it was meant as a joke -.- why so serious about internet mechs?

[Wrathful Scythe]

GeneralArmchair, on 24 September 2015 - 11:10 PM, said:

Weren't they supposed to nerf ECM by halving the radius of its umbrella? What ever happened to that?

You know that such changes take time, right?
It takes a lot of work to implement that kind of stuff, right?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

EchoFreebirth, on 25 September 2015 - 04:50 AM, said:

On that note, as a relatively new player I don't think LRMs are nerfed.

Point me to the other weapon system that requires someone to keep a solid lock on the target from when you click to when the ammo hits the target (IE that REQUIRES teamwork to use), and needs NARC/TAG/UAV to counteract the 1.5 ton equipment that makes it so your weapons are effectively dead weight.

Oh, I forgot, the other weapon that practically requires another piece of equipment (artemis), at least one module (advanced target decay) to do average damage with? Oh dont forget those only work when you actually have LOS with the target.

Oh I almost forgot, unlike all other weapons, in the HUD the number for max range. Unlike all other weapons, when your missiles hit that range they explode. They dont do reduced damage.

Ill wait

Screech, on 25 September 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

I am not sure why the change was considered a nerf to ECM. It also was to lower the counter effect from BAP and these changes were going to be a huge buff to ECM brawlers. If you thought ACH with small pulse lasers were bad before wait till you have to play against ones that your first warning of them will be the stripping of all you rear armor.

This. Your first warning that ecm light (or med or whatever) is behind you will be when you die

[Freeman 52]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 25 September 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

Point me to the other weapon system that requires someone to keep a solid lock on the target from when you click to when the ammo hits the target (IE that REQUIRES teamwork to use), and needs NARC/TAG/UAV to counteract the 1.5 ton equipment that makes it so your weapons are effectively dead weight.

Oh, I forgot, the other weapon that practically requires another piece of equipment (artemis), at least one module (advanced target decay) to do average damage with? Oh dont forget those only work when you actually have LOS with the target.

Oh I almost forgot, unlike all other weapons, in the HUD the number for max range. Unlike all other weapons, when your missiles hit that range they explode. They dont do reduced damage.

Ill wait

Buddah, I won't dispute anything you say: all I mean is, not having experienced the golden age of LRMs, they seem to work fine for me. I am not dead weight when I PUG or join my unit in an LRM boat. I get kills. I help the team. Maybe I would get more immediate satisfaction and pinpoint damage with other weapons, but on the other hand I get indirect fire + area denial + cockpit shake + annoying "incoming missile" warning. And I do this most of the time without artemis, NARC, BAP or TAG, just one or two solid lance mates. I am not a great player, mind you! Tier 4 here, and proudly so.

TL;DR
Works for me, but I understand YMMV.

[Novakaine]

On a serious side note.
After a little thought it's a video game after all.
Dropping that 180 meter ecm bubble to 90 might be the worst idea ever.
1. Most mechs rarely travel together with the bubble - Plenty of targets
2. Most ecm pilots are selfish and don't use it to effectively protect the team - Ecm snipers.
3. A 90 meter ecm bubble would allow the little buggers to close to optimal alpha range without detection.
But for all those having trouble using lrm's here's Novakaine's handy and practical Lurm guide.
As you can see from the picture below.
Don't launch on targets in the bubble, fire on targets outside the bubble.
And always check your six

[Goose]

[Captain, Road Prison 36]What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some Tiers you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way Tier One wants it... well, Teir One gets it. I don't like it any more than you men.[/Captain, Road Prison 36]