81 replies to this topic

[Felio]

plz asplain.

[Rebas Kradd]

They were unable to be shown because of legal issues.

I think that's literally the only reason anyone cared. It's not like they'll be overly powerful chassis in MWO.

[Felio]

OK... but they came to a licensing deal? Because some of Russ' tweets seem to suggest they are trying not to get too close to the old art, but that's not how copyright law works.

[Scout Derek]

Rebas Kradd, on 05 October 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

They were unable to be shown because of legal issues.

I think that's literally the only reason anyone cared. It's not like they'll be overly powerful chassis in MWO.

Yep, it was supposed to be one of the first heavies to be in Mechwarrior: Online, as seen in this video released long ago as a trailer:



and by the way, it says Mechwarrior 5 because the game was not given a definite game at the time.

Felio, on 05 October 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

OK... but they came to a licensing deal? Because some of Russ' tweets seem to suggest they are trying not to get too close to the old art, but that's not how copyright law works.

Details are vague, and we'll have to see later.

[Escef]

It's a big deal because it was the original iconic mech in the franchise.




But after numerous legal battles the original art went away. But it was so iconic that even 25 years after the game's original release they were trying to harken to it. (This is a Hammerhands, BTW, not a Warhammer.)



Seeing the Warhammer again for many of the old timers is like seeing a good friend from their childhood days they thought they'd never see again.

[TercieI]

Here's the Sarna link, also there are dozens of threads discussing it on these forums.

[Rebas Kradd]

Felio, on 05 October 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

OK... but they came to a licensing deal? Because some of Russ' tweets seem to suggest they are trying not to get too close to the old art, but that's not how copyright law works.

It appears that Russ saw another company launching Battletech and decided they finally had enough clout to just thumb their nose at the Japanese rights holders and deploy the mechs anyway. There doesn't appear to have been any actual legal closure on the matter.

[Felio]

Rebas Kradd, on 05 October 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

It appears that Russ saw another company launching Battletech and decided they finally had enough clout to just thumb their nose at the Japanese rights holders and deploy the mechs anyway. There doesn't appear to have been any actual legal closure on the matter.

Eh, there is a myth in the U.S. that if you don't defend your copyright you lose its protection. That's only true of trademarks. Maybe there is some kind of international law loophole at play here. They must have found some kind of justification.

[LordSkippy]

Felio, on 05 October 2015 - 10:31 AM, said:

Eh, there is a myth in the U.S. that if you don't defend your copyright you lose its protection. That's only true of trademarks. Maybe there is some kind of international law loophole at play here. They must have found some kind of justification.

It's actually a US company that held the rights to distribute and produce Robotech based shows in the states that was causing all the trouble. The had a reputation of "sue first, ask questions later'. They recently lost a suit against Hasbro and have had rumors of financial problems.

With Catalyst Game Labs pushing forward with redesigns of the unseen they felt were in spirit of the originals, yet different enough to avoid lawsuit by a gun shy and possibly weaked Harmony Gold (the sue happy people), PGI apparently decided it was worth the less likely risk of lawsuit with their own redesigns. Plus, with PGI and HBS sharing artwork, that spreads legal defense fees across two companies, and possibly three if CGL decides to help defend to protect their own redesigns.

Edited by LordSkippy, 05 October 2015 - 10:57 AM.

[Apnu]

Felio, on 05 October 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

plz asplain.

Its a fan favorite. Not really sure why.

Yes the WHN looks badass, but so does the Marauder and the Archer plus the Phoenix Hawk (at 45 tons). The stock WHM is woefully under armored. Its 70 tons but carries a HBK's armor value, much like the JM6. Its gun arms are low slung, like the MAD but its torso weapons (and it gets a lot of them) are about mid way between the waist and the cockpit (except for the one missile hard point over the shoulder),

Design wise, the mech will be middle-of-the-pack in geometry.

The unseen walls are breaking down, Harmony Gold doesn't have the strangle hold it used to have and PGI, plus CGL, and HBS all think they have designs that can be used in the game that will withstand a Harmony Gold lawsuit. All three companies have built up a legal defense of some kind and are now sharing visual designs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Felio, on 05 October 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

plz asplain.

Dude, like yur Tier 4, OK? U wouldn't unnerstand, bruh

Apnu, on 05 October 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

Its a fan favorite. Not really sure why.

Yes the WHN looks badass, but so does the Marauder and the Archer plus the Phoenix Hawk (at 45 tons). The stock WHM is woefully under armored. Its 70 tons but carries a HBK's armor value, much like the JM6. Its gun arms are low slung, like the MAD but its torso weapons (and it gets a lot of them) are about mid way between the waist and the cockpit (except for the one missile hard point over the shoulder),

Design wise, the mech will be middle-of-the-pack in geometry.

The unseen walls are breaking down, Harmony Gold doesn't have the strangle hold it used to have and PGI, plus CGL, and HBS all think they have designs that can be used in the game that will withstand a Harmony Gold lawsuit. All three companies have built up a legal defense of some kind and are now sharing visual designs.

because for some of us, Battletech/Mechwarrior means more than metahumping a videogame?

3025 TT it was a beast, with the firepower and versatility for any scenario. And, rule of cool.

Be kind of like fans of a star wars game hoping to have Darth Vader added, but then they add something else instead because "it's cooler, more meta" for the game. Fans of the IP don't care. They wanted Vader.

And tbh, for those who aren't fans? Go find some generic mech game to ruin.

At least, that's my take.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 05 October 2015 - 11:20 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

To add to the legal discussions. HG (read: Harmony Gold) only won against FASA because they could afford to drag on the proceedings where FASA could not. Many agree, that had FASA the finances to continue, they would have won the battle. So, HG won only because they could afford to.

I am not sure what went down with Catalyst games, but they did something that put HG in their place and gave the understandably cautious PGI enough to proceed as well.

What ever you think of the mech(s) themselves, I'll donate to any FU that goes against HG.

[RussianWolf]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 October 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

Dude, like yur Tier 4, OK? U wouldn't unnerstand, bruh

[smack in the back of the head]

play nice....... don't make me come up there.

Edited by RussianWolf, 05 October 2015 - 11:40 AM.

[Felio]

RussianWolf, on 05 October 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

[smack in the back of the head]

play nice....... don't make me come up there.

Oh, me and BS go way back to that one time we got matchmaked on Caustic Valley.

Actually my W:L and KDR are both 1.31, I just haven't played a whole lot since the PSR patch. I've been farming T4 though and rocketing through it when I do play. I have to say I don't hate it.

[Murphy7]

Just to weigh in a little bit, in the 3025 era set, and certainly when people first learn the game from the boxed set only (same Warhammer cover set shown above), the Warhammer and Marauder were real terrors of the set in part because the PPC was brutal in the Tabletop, and these mechs carried two of them.

An aside: when people first encounter the Awesome later, three PPCs was enough reason for the name.

Yeah, building your own mechs, getting CityTech (rest of the Autocannon, learn about a Demolisher tank, horizons broaden) and the Warhammer changes for you. Still, one of the common stock variants trades the MGs and ammo for two tons of armor.

I can see why people who started playing after the Clan invasion would be unimpressed. If it helps, think of it as a classic car. You might favor the more modern designs and technology; but there will be others who really love the classics.

Warhammer might be my '68 1/2 Mustang

[Bishop Steiner]

Murphy7, on 05 October 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

Just to weigh in a little bit, in the 3025 era set, and certainly when people first learn the game from the boxed set only (same Warhammer cover set shown above), the Warhammer and Marauder were real terrors of the set in part because the PPC was brutal in the Tabletop, and these mechs carried two of them.

An aside: when people first encounter the Awesome later, three PPCs was enough reason for the name.

Yeah, building your own mechs, getting CityTech (rest of the Autocannon, learn about a Demolisher tank, horizons broaden) and the Warhammer changes for you. Still, one of the common stock variants trades the MGs and ammo for two tons of armor.

I can see why people who started playing after the Clan invasion would be unimpressed. If it helps, think of it as a classic car. You might favor the more modern designs and technology; but there will be others who really love the classics.

Warhammer might be my '68 1/2 Mustang

ugh...did you really compare the greatest classic mech ever to a Blue Oval Pony?!?!?!?!

Sheesh. Everyone knows it's a 69 Super Bee.

[Foxwalker]

I have always wanted a Savannah Master (from the 3026 TM) since we found out how much high speed helps to keep you alive.

216 Kph before speed tweak.

(Yes, I know, this has nothing to do with the current topic).

[Phlinger]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 October 2015 - 11:54 AM, said:

ugh...did you really compare the greatest classic mech ever to a Blue Oval Pony?!?!?!?!

Sheesh. Everyone knows it's a 69 Super Bee.

Bishop, don't you mean 69/70 GTO? I'm pretty sure you did.

I'll just pretend you did.

For those that still don't understand just how awesome the Warhammer is. Imagine if every time you look or think of one of your favorite games you played as a kid or teenager, you remember this...



You just can't top that.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ronyn, on 05 October 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

Bishop, don't you mean 69/70 GTO? I'm pretty sure you did.

I'll just pretend you did.

For those that still don't understand just how awesome the Warhammer is. Imagine if every time you look or think of one of your favorite games you played as a kid or teenager, you remember this...



You just can't top that.

if you wanna go that route I think you meant

only the best, baby

but even that pales compared to

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 05 October 2015 - 12:47 PM.

[Phlinger]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 October 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

if you wanna go that route I think you meant

only the best, baby

Too boxy. This isn't my dad's clunker.....



Ahhh, there we go....