178 replies to this topic

[Homeskilit]

xXBagheeraXx, on 06 October 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

no because then you get chain fired SRM6 screen shake troll builds.

Well for one you would actually have to hit your opponent, you would have to be in brawl range, and you would have to leave yourself exposed. Also chain firing 6s would only cause moderate screen shake, by that i mean less then you get now.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

xXBagheeraXx, on 06 October 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

no because then you get chain fired SRM6 screen shake troll builds.

So...
Limited to 270 meters...
Projectile doesn't lock on...
Countered by AMS...(even just 1 missle being destroyed would bring the shake to zero )
Requires serious leading on fast targets...
Damage spreads like crazy...

I'm failing to see how they're a problem again?

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 06 October 2015 - 04:39 PM.

[Homeskilit]

The Atlas Overlord, on 06 October 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

As long as ballistics followed the same pattern that would be perfectly fair.

Get hit with projectiles totalling 0-5 damage = zero shake
Get hit with projectiles totalling 6-15 damage = moderate shake
Get hit with projectiles totalling 20+ = Shake that you get now when being spammed with AC rounds.

I totally agree with this.

[Lyoto Machida]

Tesunie, on 06 October 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

I'm thinking that too many people are having a hit registration issue for it to not be something.

Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean it isn't a problem. There have been many debilitating bugs that have gone on that never affected me, but they were a problem for some people, and PGI worked on fixing the issue for them.

Wrong...he's like the canary in the mineshaft. If SRMs work for him, nobody else has a problem.

[xXBagheeraXx]

The Atlas Overlord, on 06 October 2015 - 04:38 PM, said:

So...
Limited to 270 meters...
Projectile doesn't lock on...
Countered by AMS...(even just 1 missle being destroyed would bring the shake to zero )
Requires serious leading on fast targets...
Damage spreads like crazy...

I'm failing to see how they're a problem again?

Walk up to Dire whale.

Hold chain fire button.

Collect kill.

That is the problem. We have already been through the screenshake cheese with the OG splat cats and streak cats. I do not want to return to that.

[Sader325]

LordBraxton, on 06 October 2015 - 04:09 PM, said:

^^^ this guy is basically displaying everything that is wrong with the MWO community

SRMs have needed a buff for years. it's overdue

So to be clear, the problem with the community is someone who enjoys a weapon system is against buffing it because he feels its unnecessary?

[Homeskilit]

Sader325, on 06 October 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

So to be clear, the problem with the community is someone who enjoys a weapon system is against buffing it because he feels its unnecessary?

No the problem is the people who are against any change to any part of the game because they are ok with how said part of the game is currently.

Basically it is a case of the silent majority vs the vocal minority. It takes a few people raising a big fuss to prevent change.

Edited by Homeskilit, 06 October 2015 - 05:58 PM.

[Tesunie]

Sader325, on 06 October 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

So to be clear, the problem with the community is someone who enjoys a weapon system is against buffing it because he feels its unnecessary?

No.

The issue is more so saying that there can't possibly be a problem, calling anyone who is having a problem "a bad" (I know, not your exact words), and then refuse to consider any and all evidence that shows that many of us are having the problem, even if you are not.

I also don't think SRMs need a buffing. What they need is to register their damage when I hit something visually with it. All weapons need this, so it isn't restricted to just SRMs. They are just the worst offenders for it and seem more prone to the issue.

[Mystere]

xXBagheeraXx, on 06 October 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

no because then you get chain fired SRM6 screen shake troll builds.

I disagree. I want suppressing the enemy to become a big part of the game.

Why are people soooooo afraid?

[Sader325]

Tesunie, on 06 October 2015 - 06:01 PM, said:

No.

The issue is more so saying that there can't possibly be a problem, calling anyone who is having a problem "a bad" (I know, not your exact words), and then refuse to consider any and all evidence that shows that many of us are having the problem, even if you are not.

I also don't think SRMs need a buffing. What they need is to register their damage when I hit something visually with it. All weapons need this, so it isn't restricted to just SRMs. They are just the worst offenders for it and seem more prone to the issue.

I could provide you HUNDREDS of videos of SRMS working perfectly fine, but none of you naysayers would take it into account.

I record my matches all the time and use SRMS as I said previously, almost exclusively.

They work, they hit, theres no problem with them, most "hitreg" issues in this game are ********.

[Tesunie]

Sader325, on 06 October 2015 - 06:08 PM, said:

I could provide you HUNDREDS of videos of SRMS working perfectly fine, but none of you naysayers would take it into account.

I record my matches all the time and use SRMS as I said previously, almost exclusively.

They work, they hit, theres no problem with them, most "hitreg" issues in this game are ********.

No. We take it into account. It's great if you are not having the same problems as we are. It's nice to see someone not having issues.

However, it doesn't invalidate the fact that we experience an issue with damage hitting but not applying. I'm sure we could scrounge around and post hundreds of videos to support our claims as well. (I though do not record my matches, as my system is not set up for such a task. I also don't really know how to do so yet.)

I've had far more than just SRMs "disappear into the aether". These are confirmed visual hits. Such as against shut down mechs as an example. I've made mention asking if other people have experienced similar issues, and got a lot of confirmations. Then, I've had people show me videos (such as the Atlas one here) as them showing off that they do indeed know of the issue.

Then again, back when the Spider was released, I recall one person's video of "look how many AC20 shots hit that Spider and it didn't die!!!" It was a slow motion. When observed close in though, the shots he thought hit actually went between the arm and the torso and was a complete miss. He had only one shot hit that did not register out of all the shots he fired. He had an issue, but it wasn't as bad as he thought. (Spider at that time had a spot near it's belly button that didn't register any damage. It was a hole in the hit boxes.) (We've also had a previous issue with Hit Registration. It's been worked on before, and the last weapon to be calibrated again was lasers. However, two patches after the laser fix, other weapons started to experience issues again. This wouldn't be the first time Hit Registration was off.)

Now, in comparison, the Atlas video presented here had 3 out of 5 volleys visually confirm as hit, and did no damage at all. That's over half his shots hitting, connecting, and dealing no damage with SRMs. His lasers though hit and did damage (though one shot visually hit his target's side torso, and it damage a different component all together).


As stated, I don't disbelieve that you aren't having a problem, for whatever reason. If I knew how you did it, I'd do it myself so I could stop having the problems with hit registration. However, I'm having an issue with it. There seems to be no reason why. I'm not the only one with the issue, which makes me think it's not something specific to me. (Otherwise, I'd suspect something on my end instead.)

[wanderer]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a reversion to the pre-Buckton-fix issue.

That is, MWO registers lots of missile hits at once, it doesn't successfully flag them all as "damage". Shots literally end up vanishing into thin air. The point of trouble seems to be around 18 missiles,

[Tesunie]

wanderer, on 06 October 2015 - 06:36 PM, said:

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a reversion to the pre-Buckton-fix issue.

That is, MWO registers lots of missile hits at once, it doesn't successfully flag them all as "damage". Shots literally end up vanishing into thin air. The point of trouble seems to be around 18 missiles,

I've had volleys of 4 in my Panther do nothing. So... Don't know? But the more that hits, the more that does seem to get lost.

[Khobai]

Quote

TTK would be fixed with a heat system revamp...

No it wouldnt. Thats a crazy myth.

Making the heat system more punitive will just give rise to dual gauss dominance.

Youll be forcing people to use dual gauss and nothing else.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Khobai, on 06 October 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

No it wouldnt. Thats a crazy myth.

Making the heat system more punitive will just give rise to dual gauss dominance.

Youll be forcing people to use dual gauss and nothing else.

Which would lengthen time to kill b/c alphas would be capped at 30 instead of 70+

[Khobai]

Quote

Which would lengthen time to kill b/c alphas would be capped at 30 instead of 70+

no youd still be able to fire some lasers too. dual gauss is only 2 heat afterall.

so if the heat cap was halved from 60 to like 30 like these "lower the heat cap" nutters keep proposing.... youd still be able to fire dual gauss and at least x3-x4 CERMLs without overheating. Which is still a 50-60 point alpha.

lower heat cap fixes nothing. it just forces everyone to use dual gauss as the core armament of all builds.


the problem is NOT the heat system. The problem is pinpoint convergence of weapons and lack of game mechanics to distribute damage more evenly across the hit locations of mechs.

So why fix something thats not the problem? just fix the actual problem.

Thats why ghost heat failed miserably. It sidestepped the actual problem. And it ended up punishing weapons that werent even overpowered like SRMs. Meanwhile laser vomit builds like x2 CLPL and x4 CERML completely circumvent ghost heat, and those are the exact builds ghost heat was intended to limit. Ghost heat is a complete mess and a joke.

Edited by Khobai, 06 October 2015 - 07:20 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

If you really want to swing SRM into the "Viable" weapons lane, you do it by making them effective and accurate within that 0-270 meter range.

Just as with LBX vs Gauss accuracy defines the usefulness of a weapon in MWO.

SRM's don't really need more damage than what they have now.

SRM accuracy firstly needs to be normalized between SRM with & without Artemis, and then it needs to be normalized from launcher to launcher.

The cluster radius differences between a SRM2 and SRM6 should be minimal and tight with or without Artemis.

I would also rather see Artemis more directly influence velocity rather than accuracy as much, I think it would be great if Artemis would boost Velocity by 30-50% and accuracy radius somewhere in the 10-15% IMO.

[Madcap72]

Sader325, on 06 October 2015 - 06:08 PM, said:

I could provide you HUNDREDS of videos of SRMS working perfectly fine, but none of you naysayers would take it into account.

I record my matches all the time and use SRMS as I said previously, almost exclusively.

They work, they hit, theres no problem with them, most "hitreg" issues in this game are ********.

Looking at my stats I have just over 4600 drops recorded under the game mode stats.


Your hundreds of video's might show your experience, I have had thousands of drops and in my experience. SRMS have problems.

I don't suppose you recall how much worse they were back in 2012/2013?

[stjobe]

Homeskilit, on 06 October 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

SRMs need to be faster and more impactful. They are big, high yield warheads that do not track their opponent.

Here's a pair of questions for you (they're really for Paul but I'm sure he doesn't care, and hasn't cared for a few years now):
1. What does the 'M' in 'SRM' stand for?
2. What is the difference, if any, between a missile¹ and a rocket²?

I'll forego my usual spiel about what MWO's missile system could be, and just note that what we have are some bastardized versions of MRMs, not SRMs.

¹ "a missile is a self-propelled precision-guided munition system" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile
² "A rocket is a self-propelled, unguided weapon system powered by a rocket motor." - https://en.wikipedia.../Rocket_(weapon)

Edited by stjobe, 07 October 2015 - 04:55 AM.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

xXBagheeraXx, on 06 October 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

Walk up to Dire whale.

Hold chain fire button.

Collect kill.

That is the problem. We have already been through the screenshake cheese with the OG splat cats and streak cats. I do not want to return to that.

This HAS to be a joke.

There is no way you're claiming that an SRM boat could not only close on the direwolf but then out dps it.

You know what happens when you try to chain fire SRM6s at a dire?

You make it to about the 3'rd SRM6 hit and then 75% of your mech is gone.

Source: Trying it with 4 SRM6 atlas with cooldown modules.