33 replies to this topic

[Hotthedd]

Khobai, on 15 October 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:

earnings are too low as is

dont need a repair/rearm tax making it even lower

Agreed that if R&R were brought into the game, C-bill earnings would have to go up for those opting into R&R. But earnings could be left where they are if a player opted out of R&R.

[Vegalas]

Well, to be honest I like some aspects of the ideas presented in the OP's post. However like many in this thread I don't think R&R should ever fully make a comeback in MWO. The extra economy management really could take a lot of fun out of the game when punishing a player too much for losing or doing too bad. Still, I think R&R could have some sort of a role in CW. I also have an idea for the second currency mentioned in the OP. Lorewise it would be better if c-bills would be restricted to CW and these CVP's could rewarded from the simulator-like Arcade battles. Then one could imagine them being a sort of a training preparing pilots for real battles. When you get enough CVP's you could change them for other rewards like MC, C-bills, weapons, mechs, components and etc. However that's where I think it should stay because I like the idea of mech bay maintenance about as little as the idea of a full comeback of the R&R system. Kudos for the OP's other ideas though. It's not every day people put some effort in making a more detailed thread.

Edited by Vegalas, 15 October 2015 - 11:20 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

As far as i have understand some concerns you think people may hide to reduce necessary repair costs. Nobody want to become the first that get shot.

Well you can modify game mechanics to reduce that.
As a variation of Hottheds idea with risk/reward: getting shot (soak up enemy damage) earns you C-Bills and XP.

The other thing is - those other players aim to get good salvage.
If salvage is only granted to those that actually kill a target (not kill stealing but Kill Most damage; or Solokill) and of course the mechanism to reduce damage on enemy mechs to get more salvage should keep the repair costs in balance.

Look a burned out cockpit is cheap to repair and will grant the other player a nice bonus for his CVP account

[Kjudoon]

Interesting proposal. The game needs r&r plus salvage put back in the game particularly in cw where wins and losses should have consequences and faction membership means something bigger... Like free rearm and repair for faction hardware while specialty non faction mechs require you to shell out of your own pocket and mechs from other factions get really expensive.

The problem is you have a solid and vocal contingent here that want nothing to do with immersion storyline or lore. They want pew pew durka durka fps deathmatch where everything is back to full health and ammo after evey level is cleared. They will be bitter foes to any changes in this regard.

[Vegalas]

I still don't agree with R&R being added to arcade mode. Having it in CW would make some sense though. Like I stated earlier lorewise those arcade battles could be part of a simulator training for pilots. A reward for tanking damage isn't exactly a new idea either but a reward for getting shot in the cockpit? I don't think I've read many ideas as cringe worthy as that here on the forums.

I also looked at the topic again and realized that CVP is just another way to calculate match score. Anyways even though I wrote that CVP wasn't that bad of an idea I don't think anything like this should be high on the priority list. There just are so much better things to concentrate on.

Edited by Vegalas, 22 October 2015 - 01:24 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Kjudoon, on 22 October 2015 - 01:15 AM, said:

The problem is you have a solid and vocal contingent here that want nothing to do with immersion storyline or lore. They want pew pew durka durka fps deathmatch where everything is back to full health and ammo after evey level is cleared. They will be bitter foes to any changes in this regard.

They can play Clans but woe betide them when they don't get SOLO Kills and don't use OmniMechs

[Kjudoon]

One thing often overlooked in a game is the 2 reasons people fight. Money or causes. Since causes are rare they must be dealt with in different manners. The problem is the economic structure of this game is beyond primative. It rNks down there with arcade games produced in the mid 1980s.

Till such time as a dynamic multi front economy with variable prices affluence and scarcity balanced against supply and demand over borders with. Functional black market we will not achieve much if any depth worth talking about.

Mercenaries fight for money and should have to pay for the privilege of fighting the way they want. Loyalists should get lots for free but their choices are severely limited. Loyal mercs would get greater benefits over time splitting the difference between loyalist and merc while pirates... Something this game needs would be the best paid and hardest to maintain.

This is stuff to be honest i dont know if pgi can pull off anymore. Logistics and economics seem to be subjects they have punted on because a small vocal minority wants this a solaris style shooter like we have now in all modez and maps currently.

But that is looking at reasoning beyond mechanics.

[Johnny Z]

+1 for repair and rearm.

+1 for mech sim.

[Gemini Bull]

as someone who has been playing since this existed at the very beginning, as long as its not as bad as it was then, im ok with it. it adds some extra thinking to how you play and manage your mechs.

[Vanguard319]

We actually had Repair and rearm in beta (among other things like mechs falling) It was removed because players complained that it was bankrupting them, mostly the LRM boats with 1000+ missiles and nothing else. IMO it could have worked if they weren't so stingy with the economy, and actually repaired damaged components instead of replacing them completely.

[smokefield]

not liking the idea.. we have enough grind as it is. and any system that adds more complications to already too complicated game we have is not good. there are much more important aspects in the game that are not adressed and should be prioritar to this.

[Karl Streiger]

Vanguard319, on 17 April 2016 - 09:37 PM, said:

We actually had Repair and rearm in beta (among other things like mechs falling) It was removed because players complained that it was bankrupting them, mostly the LRM boats with 1000+ missiles and nothing else. IMO it could have worked if they weren't so stingy with the economy, and actually repaired damaged components instead of replacing them completely.

yep - i think the important part about rnr in beta (even the beginning of ob with DHS ES etc.) was you could run a mech with cheap components.
I did run a COM-1B - 3 MEdium Laser, 180 STD Fusion, SHS, STD Structure and Armor. Even after a suicidal charge and almost no damage on a loose after the "repair" i still had a +of 180.000 Cbills.

But at those times PGI tend to remove the problematic features rather than solving them - pitty.

smokefield, on 17 April 2016 - 10:16 PM, said:

not liking the idea.. we have enough grind as it is. and any system that adds more complications to already too complicated game we have is not good. there are much more important aspects in the game that are not adressed and should be prioritar to this.

Complex? Grind? Not really - you may not be able to drop twice in a row when your Mech is utterly destroyed - so you may drop in a second one - maybe a cheap one - to have enough CVPs to repair both.

BTW would be nice if the head hit boxes are increased by 50%

Edited by Karl Streiger, 18 April 2016 - 02:54 AM.

[poopenshire]

This will never be appropriate in this game. To play devil's advocate:

So long as players are allowed to run off and die own their own, bring crap mechs, bring crap trial mechs, hide in the back, and so on. Are you going to allow players to ask PGI to take CBills from those type of players who ruined the game for everyone else? What about in group play where tiers are mixed much more greatly. Will you allow players to demand payment from players who suicide or refuse to follow instructions and get the team killed? And what about the teams that runs off to NASCAR and abandons their assaults and never care to help or support them? Are you willing to fork over the cash to R&R that mech?

I know it sounds good and I know it adds depth, but so long as this game exists where PUGs act the way they do it will never make sense. The minute this is instituted there will have to be a way for players who make bad decisions and players who intentionally throw matches to be forced to pay the R&R for those matches. The next issues is how do you seperate those people from a mech who legitimately just poked over the wrong hill at the wrong time.

There are too many issues and unknowns to make this a viable system. No matter what you do your creating a system ripe for abuse. Whats to stop entire teams of trolls from running around crap mechs with no armor with their only goal to die and basically cause large groups to lose money?

I agree though the depth of this seems like a good idea, but in reality its just not gonna work.

[Karl Streiger]

I know why i started to hate people, humans ruin every thing.....

Of course my idea is based on the wrong assumption, that people would use the system rather that try to exploit it at the very first moment. OK i also paid my rnr when it was ingame - without abusing the 75%

Edited by Karl Streiger, 18 April 2016 - 06:16 AM.