21 replies to this topic

[Hades Trooper]

So i play my 1st Cw in many many months, like 3 or more and it's a defend mission.

So here we have 12 pugs all single players vs a 12 man group, sounds bad right?

Anyway 1st wave is over it's 12-4 where winning which has me pleased and i'm like omega is 7/8 down but where holding strong.

Then low and behold it's 14-6 and they win cause omega is down, What a boring game. when did they make defense so pointless?

Even more reason not to play CW anymore

I didn't even see any generators they needed to take down just omega, PGI you need a wake up call

[Sixpack]

The generators are still there. But they do not appear on your HUD anymore. (They still appear on the map)

This also means that they basically pushed threw your defence and went straight for gens. To be honest you can view it positively:

It now takes longer to do than with light rushes that were done before and you actually get in some kills.

Edited by Sixpack, 10 October 2015 - 09:15 PM.

[Livewyr]

Indeed, if they broke all your gens in 2 waves, the defense crumbled. Breaking the Gens requires a considerable amount of time now due to positioning.

[Ace Selin]

Attackers generally need to have their backs to your drop zones to attack gens, so if they did that you guys weren't defending forcefully enough, for them to kill 3 gens and Omega in 2 Waves

Edited by Ace Selin, 11 October 2015 - 05:02 AM.

[That Dawg]

Hades Trooper, on 10 October 2015 - 09:12 PM, said:

So i play my 1st Cw in many many months

wow

I've been "gone" for 4ish months and came back. Thanks for the rewards, actually what brought me back.

now...CW...WUT happened?? I haven't actually played any battles, the 5-6 times I've logged in, specifically to play CW, there were a dozen to 20some players waiting in cue. The most I've seen were 40ish.
sorry, no where near enough to wait 20 minutes when thats about how much time I have to play

Did it die and I missed the obit?
Wound up playing a pug, but after signing onto a life contract with CW...sort of wanted to run some...
Any times (in EST) where the cues have a population of some kind?

[illudium Q 36]

Welcome back to CW.

Omega Rushes are in. They (the attackers) only have to rapidly kill the first defending wave and take out Omega before the second wave arrives from the drop zone. Easy to do with a Clan Premade versus IS PUGS. Some of the organized premades are worse than others at pulling this stunt. It's like they don't even care about faming components and mech kills for points.

Some may object to labeling this behavior a "stunt". But its like playing Conquest/Assault and sticky going for a Cap win. This type of game ties with Checkers as being loads of fun, No?

[R Razor]

Hades Trooper, on 10 October 2015 - 09:12 PM, said:

So i play my 1st Cw in many many months, like 3 or more and it's a defend mission.

So here we have 12 pugs all single players vs a 12 man group, sounds bad right?

Anyway 1st wave is over it's 12-4 where winning which has me pleased and i'm like omega is 7/8 down but where holding strong.

Then low and behold it's 14-6 and they win cause omega is down, What a boring game. when did they make defense so pointless?

Even more reason not to play CW anymore

I didn't even see any generators they needed to take down just omega, PGI you need a wake up call

If you had spent less time typing messages about how "lame" and "boring" the game was when we came in our heavy and assault mechs and ignored your defenders while focusing your turrets and generators you would probably have seen that there were in fact O-Gens that we had to kill first.

And for those concerned about Clan pre-mades.........this was a mixed Steiner unit (at least 4 separate units) that coordinated via the House Steiner TS server.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

illudium Q 36, on 12 October 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

Easy to do with a Clan Premade versus IS PUGS.

It's also easy to do with IS Premades versus Clan PUGS. Guess you can catch my drift.

[Tarl Cabot]

You said you were defending but was the planet Clan or IS? The difference is that it generally takes a unit before an actual attack planet happens, at which point the planetary defenders start to form up, which is usually made of solo/small groups.

Clans tend to be more aggressive so their units are more likely to launch attacks (which can be attack/hold territory/something else I think). So you, as a Clanner, is facing something that generally the IS faces more often.

PGI has the stats, and the other difference is that for planetary attackers, only one minor faction can be on the planet (CSJ attacking a Draconis owned planet), whereas the planetary defenders (that same Draconis owned planet) are generally several minor factions, solo-wise, with the odd larger unit thrown in.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 12 October 2015 - 04:54 PM.

[R Razor]

Tarl Cabot, on 12 October 2015 - 04:53 PM, said:

You said you were defending but was the planet Clan or IS? The difference is that it generally takes a unit before an actual attack planet happens, at which point the planetary defenders start to form up, which is usually made of solo/small groups.

Clans tend to be more aggressive so their units are more likely to launch attacks (which can be attack/hold territory/something else I think). So you, as a Clanner, is facing something that generally the IS faces more often.

PGI has the stats, and the other difference is that for planetary attackers, only one minor faction can be on the planet (CSJ attacking a Draconis owned planet), whereas the planetary defenders (that same Draconis owned planet) are generally several minor factions, solo-wise, with the odd larger unit thrown in.

Pretty sure he is talking about the battle for Syrma.......it was a clan held planet..........we had a Steiner 12 man that was made up of 4 or 5 different units that all got on the steiner Teamspeak server to coordinate. We came in with heavy and assault mechs in our first drop and ignored enemy mechs, pushed to the generator area, killed turrets and the small generators and got damage on Omega before losing the first 12 mechs in the drop. We repeated the tactic with our second wave and finished Omega off.

He wasn't the only player that was less than pleased with our tactics over the last couple of days, several times we had folks complaining and even going so far as to explain that they didn't care about the win, only about killing mechs..........funny thing, when I suggested PUG drops they went radio silent.

[Iron Buccaneer]

Best counter for this is for the defenders to push out in their more damaged mechs and try to damage the attackers next wave as much as they can before spawning into new mechs back at their defense point. Then you have fresh mechs defending vs damaged mechs attacking. There is more to CW Invasion than your total kill count so don't forget that.

[Iron Buccaneer]

Also defenders should always try and leg enemy mechs. After all if they can't reach the objective they can't take it out.

[Moshi]

Iron Buccaneer, on 12 October 2015 - 05:20 PM, said:

There is more to CW Invasion than your total kill count so don't forget that.

sshhhh, people will start getting ideas. if it gets out that you can play this game with a balance of skill, damage, teamwork and strategy, well damn, weekends could be enjoyable again

[gloowa]

I will agree with some points OP makes here. With all the gens moved so that they are literally 50m away from each other, you can kill them all from one location, which turned "zomg op" light rushes, into assault rushes. Previous gen placement prevented 12 assaults suicide rushing all 3 gens and omega, because they would be dead before reaching gen 2. now they just get to omega and kill 3 gens AND omega. what's the point at this stage? just add gen HP to omega HP, and nothing would change.

Gens need to be moved to their original locations (or better yet, speced out even more) and changed into capturable objective, like in conquest. Attackers have to get at least 2 gens to damage Omega (50% damage resistance) or 3 gens to make Omega take 100% of each shot.
Ta-da! Interesting, dynamic mode, where you need to split between attack and defense. Deathballing will not work, one light can steal your gen and make you waddle all they way back to it. Also, capture accel will actualy start being useful.

[edit]
also, would need some bases to be larger. Sulfurus base is relatively small, for instance. Even with gens in original locations, you can almost shoot from western to eastern generators.

Edited by gloowa, 12 October 2015 - 11:54 PM.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

wakeup call for sure. for 2 queues.

1) groups vs groups
2) pug vs pug - this will make 90% of all CW traffic.

do it, or close this business with CW.

[Rushin Roulette]

gloowa, on 12 October 2015 - 11:51 PM, said:

I will agree with some points OP makes here. With all the gens moved so that they are literally 50m away from each other, you can kill them all from one location, which turned "zomg op" light rushes, into assault rushes. Previous gen placement prevented 12 assaults suicide rushing all 3 gens and omega, because they would be dead before reaching gen 2. now they just get to omega and kill 3 gens AND omega. what's the point at this stage? just add gen HP to omega HP, and nothing would change.

Gens need to be moved to their original locations (or better yet, speced out even more) and changed into capturable objective, like in conquest. Attackers have to get at least 2 gens to damage Omega (50% damage resistance) or 3 gens to make Omega take 100% of each shot.
Ta-da! Interesting, dynamic mode, where you need to split between attack and defense. Deathballing will not work, one light can steal your gen and make you waddle all they way back to it. Also, capture accel will actualy start being useful.

[edit]
also, would need some bases to be larger. Sulfurus base is relatively small, for instance. Even with gens in original locations, you can almost shoot from western to eastern generators.

Actually, the move of the Omega gens made defending them MUCH easier. Before you did not need 12 man to destroy the generators. A single or maybe 2 Light mechs could split off from the main group to take down all 3 Generators in one go while completely ignoring the turrets as tehy run past them. The remaining 10 or 11 attacking mechs kept the enemy team busy and take down the Turrets around Omega and maybe even destroy Omega itself.

Now the attacking team has to fight off the defenders and all the turrets at the same time to get at the Ogens. The defenders dont need to spread out over the entire map to be able to defend the Ogens and scouting can also be held much closer to the central area as the defenders have to move much shorter distances to counter a push from the flanks.

[gloowa]

Rushin Roulette, on 13 October 2015 - 02:20 AM, said:

Actually, the move of the Omega gens made defending them MUCH easier. Before you did not need 12 man to destroy the generators. A single or maybe 2 Light mechs could split off from the main group to take down all 3 Generators in one go while completely ignoring the turrets as tehy run past them. The remaining 10 or 11 attacking mechs kept the enemy team busy and take down the Turrets around Omega and maybe even destroy Omega itself.

Now the attacking team has to fight off the defenders and all the turrets at the same time to get at the Ogens. The defenders dont need to spread out over the entire map to be able to defend the Ogens and scouting can also be held much closer to the central area as the defenders have to move much shorter distances to counter a push from the flanks.

I disagree. With all objectives in one spot, the defenders can't fumble even once, entire match. If the defenders loose one engagement (no matter which wave, it can be on the last wave for attackers, while defenders still didn't loose a mech) the attackers can kill all objectives in under 15s. That's not enough to even respawn, most of the time, not to mention prevent omega going down.

[edit]
Regarding the "solo light gen killing". It's only a problem if that can't be reversed. That's why suggested making gens a capturable objective. They send a light to ogen 1 while main group goes ogen 2? Meet them at ogen 2 and send a light of your own to ogen 3. Simple.

Edited by gloowa, 13 October 2015 - 09:33 AM.

[Hardin4188]

If the generator health bars aren't showing up on your hud anymore then I suggest running the repair tool. I had this problem the first time I came back after a few months. After I ran the repair tool the health bars came back.

[Moshi]

Hardin4188, on 13 October 2015 - 09:48 AM, said:

If the generator health bars aren't showing up on your hud anymore then I suggest running the repair tool. I had this problem the first time I came back after a few months. After I ran the repair tool the health bars came back.

that could well be a fix for some people; i'm reluctant to use it again, i had to completely reinstall after the first time and was still having the same issues

[multisoul]

Hades Trooper, on 10 October 2015 - 09:12 PM, said:

So i play my 1st Cw in many many months, like 3 or more and it's a defend mission.

So here we have 12 pugs all single players vs a 12 man group, sounds bad right?

Anyway 1st wave is over it's 12-4 where winning which has me pleased and i'm like omega is 7/8 down but where holding strong.

Then low and behold it's 14-6 and they win cause omega is down, What a boring game. when did they make defense so pointless?

Even more reason not to play CW anymore

I didn't even see any generators they needed to take down just omega, PGI you need a wake up call

i was there and i thank to the clan that they killed omega because our team was hanging way back at the drop zone and those of us who fought died right at start. so thank you for not making me wait for those dropships to deliver farmfodder