76 replies to this topic

[BLOOD WOLF]

Tennex, on 11 October 2015 - 08:24 AM, said:

they never should have revealed it

more players voted for it to be revealed. its called democracy.

[Illya Ghost Bear]

BLOOD WOLF, on 11 October 2015 - 02:23 PM, said:

more players voted for it to be revealed. its called democracy.

and just proves, as usual, that the masses, usually don't have the best ideas. Mob rule. Always ends well.

[Ultimax]

Illya Arkhipova, on 11 October 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

and just proves, as usual, that the masses, usually don't have the best ideas. Mob rule. Always ends well.

Originally PGI was going to make PSR visible to all, at all times.

The "masses" voiced that they didn't want this.

PGI put it to a vote, and the majority voted for opt in.


So in this case "mob rule", as you've construed, kept PSR from being always visible and instead made it an opt in so players could hide their tier if they wanted to.

[Illya Ghost Bear]

Ultimatum X, on 11 October 2015 - 03:06 PM, said:

Originally PGI was going to make PSR visible to all, at all times.

The "masses" voiced that they didn't want this.

PGI put it to a vote, and the majority voted for opt in.


So in this case "mob rule", as you've construed, kept PSR from being always visible and instead made it an opt in so players could hide their tier if they wanted to.

and still can't see forest for the minutiae trees......

[BigJim]

Illya Arkhipova, on 11 October 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

Mob rule. Always ends well.

..and the opposite of democracy, or "mob rule" always starts well...

SkippyT72, on 11 October 2015 - 09:03 AM, said:

Thing that cracks me up win with 1 kill 4 assts and 250 points, PSR goes up, lose with 3 kills and 3 assts 450 points PSR goes down, thought it was all about each players skill in that drop, not the win / loss because you got grouped with players that did not play well that drop.

My gut reaction is to agree with your point - No end of times I've feel I've really pulled my weight and more in a match - several kills, stripped or effectively reduced the combat-effectiveness of the major threats to nil (if not an outright kill), and yet because the team just rambo'ed or cowered to the detriment of a plan, we lose - badly.

Pow, my PSR goes negative... :/

However I've got to be a bit philosophical here - let's be fair, the *only* truly objective measurement of skill in this game is success, consistent success. And success means winning - nothing more.

For your e-war Raven, or scouting Lolcust to be as well recognised for it's contribution to the match as my meta-las-vom Timbie; For my anti-light Streak-Crow to be as well recognised as your Cauldron-gauss-vomit; We need to accept that the criterion of the overall team-win is he only yardstick that can really do the job.

Otherwise, you could do a bang-up job of informing me where the targets are in chat, voice-comms or by good old targeting, but if I'm the guy who gets to pop-up & make the easy kill-shots, then I'm basically riding on the coat-tails of your hard work.
Ok, a very black & white example, but you get the drift....

Sure, it's possible to get the odd game where you get carried to a positive PSR bump, and it's possible to be dragged down by a poor team for a neg-PSR fall, but on average, if you "happen" to land on teams that win more than lose, well, it's like we're always saying around here - the only common denominator in all those teams is *you*, and you likely deserve the positive PSR that comes with it.

Edited by BigJim, 11 October 2015 - 04:09 PM.

[Ultimax]

Illya Arkhipova, on 11 October 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

and still can't see forest for the minutiae trees......

So then you think PGI should have implemented their first plan, and made it automatically visible?

I'd be OK with that.

[Soldier91]

In tier 5 I should have every tier except 1 showing up in my matches sometimes the balance is just weird like I'll get 3 direwolf on my team or 3 on the other team and the other without dires has assaults that are really not as capable as a dire is bound to be. Sometimes my team will end up losing very few mechs other times I'm on the other end of the stick, I'm just curious if there is a battlevalue in the match making or if it's pure tier decision on how mechs are getting paired up in pugs. I mean I'm totally fine with something like a lance of dires showing up on my team, the other team tends to get a little frustrated though and tends to let us know.

[-Vompo-]

Guys don't complain. Embrace the challenge.

[MechWarrior5152251]

If your PSR is dropping there is something seriously wrong with you. No matter how bad you play you are going to get carried in half the matches, which means you must really be tipping the games into losses.....

[Death Proof]

Wintersdark, on 11 October 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

And 450 match score on a loss will get you "=" (no change) typically, or even rating gain, depending on what exactly happened. It's pretty easy to at least break even on a loss.

Your PSR goes up on a loss if you get a match score higher than 400. It stays the same on loss with a match score of 250-399. At least in T4...might be different in other tiers.

[Arctourus]

I just wish PSR wasn't so reliant on winning the match....watch how it goes. Get a few kills, decent damage, but lose the match and it drops. No kills, little damage, uninspiring performance, but your team wins? Yup, goes up. Not really much of a measurement of your performance at all.

[Chavette]

DaZur, on 11 October 2015 - 11:47 AM, said:

Psr means little to me in regards to its implications.... Other than a metric of progress or regression.

Now if I could turn off the community malcontents....

Don't lie. Psr as a number reveals your exact worth as a human.

[Kjudoon]

Chavette, on 11 October 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

Don't lie. Psr as a number reveals your exact worth as a human.

Careful, some Sheldons may actually believe that.

[MischiefSC]

SkippyT72, on 11 October 2015 - 09:03 AM, said:

Thing that cracks me up win with 1 kill 4 assts and 250 points, PSR goes up, lose with 3 kills and 3 assts 450 points PSR goes down, thought it was all about each players skill in that drop, not the win / loss because you got grouped with players that did not play well that drop.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think I believe you. Unless you're upper part of Tier 1 450 pts on a loss is still going to break even, if not still climb. I've been screenshotting almost every single match I've played for a while where I got an unexpected result. Increasing on a loss, etc.

I can say for certain that in Tier 2 if you got 450 pts you almost certainly gained PSR on a loss. Conversely 200pts on a win and you might not go up at all, if any.

I've been doing some tests on PSR and have actually found it pretty reasonable. I'd rather a point value instead of a 'bar' showing your progress but it's alright - in the end we're probably better just not knowing.

More importantly - PSR rank really doesn't mean much about someones competency at the game in an overall sense. Unless you play with a competitive group of friends group queue is going to tank your PSR. Conversely if you play group queue with a VERY competitive group of friends who are much better than you, again your PSR will slow because while you may win a lot you're not going to get a lot of kills or damage. CW doesn't impact it at all.

Largely what PSR represents is how well you do in the pug queue. That's what it's for, that's where it shines. However the matchmaker can only make matches out of who is on and in suitable mechs in the same 60 seconds trying to drop (more or less) that you are so it doesn't make magic -

It just tries to put you in as balanced an environment as possible. If someones playstyle *counted* on a lot of variation in players on the field (people better than you on your team to open up the enemies/hold targets/whatever or a consistent number of bads on the other team, etc. etc) then PSR is going to be far less forgiving than Elo was.

I am not at all certain a higher PSR is 'better'. Consider it the 'comp/non-comp' means of splitting players up as much as possible. The higher your tier the less forgiving the environment is, that's it. I wouldn't say it makes your teammates 'better' because there are plenty of high-scoring players who play like total and absolute douche-canoes. They'll try to use you like a human shield, they'll lurk and hold their fire to steal kills, they'll sandbag in the back and wait for you to soften up the other team so they can swoop in and clean up and they'll do it effectively enough that it offsets their higher number of lost matches with a higher score from more kills. There are tons of bad habits and crappy playstyles that still rank up PSR. The only thing that changes is that the a-holes on your team are not being incompetent - they are doing it with practiced malice.

Play what is fun for you and how you have fun. If winning a lot is fun, that's awesome. I know I like to win. It's fun for me. Sometimes I like to play one-off builds but winning? Very fun. However I sometimes leave the game for weeks or months at a time and simply don't have the time to put in to being 'competitive' at the game, so I settle into a balance of effort/reward that I'm happy with and is fun for me.

Find that balance. It's not your tier, it's not the matchmaker, it's what is fun for you. There's a balance between winning and derping that is where the fun lives and it's a very different place for everyone. PSR is just an otherwise meaningless metric the game uses to help you find that balance.

[TamCoan]

My largest issue with "Personal Skill Rating" is that it is really "I got lucky and got a decent team". Like other's have said, it is not a good indication of "personal" skill if you lose the match with 400 damage, 3 kills and still end up going down in rating. Nor does it make sense when you win a match but died with 20 damage at the beginning and go up in rating. I am pretty sure all of us have experienced both extremes.

Pure and simple, if it really is "personal skill rating" and you did flat-out awesome, it should go up.

At the end of the day I try to ignore it, but the competitive drive in me keeps looking at the red and green arrows and hating that they don't really mean what they said it meant.

[MischiefSC]

TamCoan, on 11 October 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

My largest issue with "Personal Skill Rating" is that it is really "I got lucky and got a decent team". Like other's have said, it is not a good indication of "personal" skill if you lose the match with 400 damage, 3 kills and still end up going down in rating. Nor does it make sense when you win a match but died with 20 damage at the beginning and go up in rating. I am pretty sure all of us have experienced both extremes.

Pure and simple, if it really is "personal skill rating" and you did flat-out awesome, it should go up.

At the end of the day I try to ignore it, but the competitive drive in me keeps looking at the red and green arrows and hating that they don't really mean what they said it meant.

If you scored 400, you didn't go down in rating. If you only did 20 damage, you didn't go up.Win or lose.

I see a lot of this and feel it's hyperbole. I'd like some screenshots and tier ranking to go with it if it's the case. I've been tracking my own PSR changes meticulously for about 160 matches so far and that doesn't jive.

[Kjudoon]

If you really want this based on individual achievement, remove Win/Loss from the equation entirely. Your contribution, regardless of the outcome will be reflected accordingly. Do 250 on a win, good for you. 250 on a loss, good for you. Or be like a match I had last night, my match score was the minimum for 0/0/0/0 because my KGC was too slow to keep up with a very fast rolling deathball that stomped the enemy 12-1. I only TWICE got a glimpse of a target, but could not fire a shot because it was that far away and that quickly behind cover.

My PSR stayed even, but I contributed NOTHING to the match. Not even a single point of damage. I just couldn't find the battle before it was over. Total match time was like 3 minutes. My queue was longer.

[TamCoan]

MischiefSC, on 11 October 2015 - 05:30 PM, said:

If you scored 400, you didn't go down in rating. If you only did 20 damage, you didn't go up.Win or lose.

I see a lot of this and feel it's hyperbole. I'd like some screenshots and tier ranking to go with it if it's the case. I've been tracking my own PSR changes meticulously for about 160 matches so far and that doesn't jive.

That is not true. I had both extremes today. 400 damage and 1-2 kills netted me a match score of 289. We lost and I went down in PSR. On the flip side was in a match with an assault where I got left behind and jumped by the entire enemy team. I did maybe 40 damage. We won and I went up in PSR. I have also been tracking how it works. Next time I'll screen cap it and post it.

[Hammerhai]

Well, by the reckoning of many I must have caused thousands in MWO some grief since 2012, because my w/l is less than 1.0. Period. Always has been.
Hey, maybe I DO suck. I have given up on figuring out why. But rolled a Flame, got tired of the 4 LL thing and slapped on an AC 10. And doubled my damage rating on a consistent string of losses. <roll eyes and all>.
So I went from 150 to 300 dmg/game to no effect on my PSR ceptin it be going down, man.

Moral though: What in heavens name is wrong again with Laser Hitreg PGI? It SUCKS at 300 ping. A-feckin-AGAIN.

I am running a pool on when I will have no measurable PSR left. Normalising my bleddy ass.
And then I ran into the guy today who waylaid me on Conquest, jumped on the top of my head, rode there and proceeded to shoot me right below him. And that guy is supposed to be tier 5 ???? BS. Since 2012 I have only seen one other guy doing equally skilled jj ing.

[Danghen Woolf]

MechWarrior5152251, on 11 October 2015 - 04:32 PM, said:

If your PSR is dropping there is something seriously wrong with you. No matter how bad you play you are going to get carried in half the matches, which means you must really be tipping the games into losses.....

This is everything wrong with the way that many of the higher Tiers see lower ones. I enjoy playing builds that I want to play, not ones that Smurfy or the top Comp teams play. I do not want to play in the top Tiers because then it is not fun for me anymore. I have nights where my PSR does not have a single green arrow but do I care? Nope, but do I need someone telling me that I am bringing my team down because I do not min/max definitely not. I play true to Battletech and that is why I stay T5.