47 replies to this topic

[V O L T R O N]

I think suicide penalties would help people from running out of bounds if the penalty was harsh. The one for overheating might not have been intentional. I would like to see 5k-10k overheating penalties and 10-20k out of bounds suicide penalties.

Edited by V O L T R O N, 11 October 2015 - 10:12 PM.

[Nightshade24]

Why not instead add Eject for normal base game instead of penalise out of bounds and heat?

[V O L T R O N]

Nightshade24, on 11 October 2015 - 10:45 PM, said:

Why not instead add Eject for normal base game instead of penalise out of bounds and heat?

Is this a serious question? Override isnt meant for suicide its meant for getting as much damage out before you die or not overheating and running for cover until you can cool down and reposition's. It isnt made for oh **** they are going to get me *hit override start alphaing the ground or already running hot and blowing up on the next shot to cheat your enemy.

Out of bounds is just a boundary, not something to save you from enemy. Thats why there is a counter that warns you to get back in.

Edited by V O L T R O N, 11 October 2015 - 11:26 PM.

[Nightshade24]

V O L T R O N, on 11 October 2015 - 11:10 PM, said:

Is this a serious question? Override isnt meant for suicide its meant for getting as much damage out before you die or not overheating and running for cover until you can cool down and reposition's. It isnt made for oh **** they are going to get me *hit override start alphaing the ground or already running hot and blowing up on the next shot to cheat your enemy.

Out of bounds is just a boundary, not something to save you from enemy. Thats why there is a counter that warns you to get back in.

Ah yes... and what happens to the people who used overide dispite the consequences of blowing up early but succumb to the consequences? Isn't dying early a punishment already for trying to dish out to much fire out then your mech could handle and thus die sooner?

Same with MASC, Trying to stay ahead in the race away from the enemy, turning corners hard and sprinting through the tiny valleys and streets pushing your mech to the limits to get out of harms way only to be ended by your legs actuators frying under the pressure, in the end of your day, If you continue to masc, you got a dim chance of making it to safty, if your actuators fail. then your mech falls as it surpassed it's limits and collapses... your pilot may still survive and the recovery salvage could be greater then the other option of falling behind and falling to the rabid enemies which could kill you and cripple any possibly recovery operations (salvage bonus is present in game fyi).

[V O L T R O N]

Nightshade24, on 11 October 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

Ah yes... and what happens to the people who used overide dispite the consequences of blowing up early but succumb to the consequences? Isn't dying early a punishment already for trying to dish out to much fire out then your mech could handle and thus die sooner?

Same with MASC, Trying to stay ahead in the race away from the enemy, turning corners hard and sprinting through the tiny valleys and streets pushing your mech to the limits to get out of harms way only to be ended by your legs actuators frying under the pressure, in the end of your day, If you continue to masc, you got a dim chance of making it to safty, if your actuators fail. then your mech falls as it surpassed it's limits and collapses... your pilot may still survive and the recovery salvage could be greater then the other option of falling behind and falling to the rabid enemies which could kill you and cripple any possibly recovery operations (salvage bonus is present in game fyi).

What happens, a penalty for using the benefit. There is no repercussion to suicide. I believe there should be. Your enemies will kill you if you arent purposely trying to POP

[Nightshade24]

V O L T R O N, on 12 October 2015 - 12:40 AM, said:

What happens, a penalty for using the benefit. There is no repercussion to suicide. I believe there should be. Your enemies will kill you if you arent purposely trying to POP

But the majority are not trying to POP.

[V O L T R O N]

Nightshade24, on 12 October 2015 - 12:59 AM, said:

But the majority are not trying to POP.

Then the majority wont, and the very skilled one wont pay a penalty. What so hard about having a paid for skill game.

[Nightshade24]

V O L T R O N, on 12 October 2015 - 01:17 AM, said:

Then the majority wont, and the very skilled one wont pay a penalty. What so hard about having a paid for skill game.

Abstaining is not a skill =l
It's just ignoring or neglecting a part of a mech that you have problems with and hopes it goes away because your MLGenious is obviously enough to protect you from ever using MASC, Jumpjets, Over ride shut down, any form of ammo weapons, or boarders.

If it's called skill- it would be actually using it. not neglecting it. telling a swordsman to ignore the fact he has a shield will not make him better at defensive close quarters combat.

[V O L T R O N]

Nightshade24, on 12 October 2015 - 01:33 AM, said:

Abstaining is not a skill =l
It's just ignoring or neglecting a part of a mech that you have problems with and hopes it goes away because your MLGenious is obviously enough to protect you from ever using MASC, Jumpjets, Over ride shut down, any form of ammo weapons, or boarders.

If it's called skill- it would be actually using it. not neglecting it. telling a swordsman to ignore the fact he has a shield will not make him better at defensive close quarters combat.

Its purpose is to prevent shutting down, not suicide. I completely understand.

[Nightshade24]

V O L T R O N, on 12 October 2015 - 01:49 AM, said:

Its purpose is to prevent shutting down, not suicide. I completely understand.

Correction, it is to prevent a shut down that is occurs to prevent extensive system damage and integrity to a mech that has breached it's heat capacity (in MW: O this is 100% but in TT would have a low chance of occurring at mid-high heats onwards with chances increasing closer and closer till 100% is certain, ammo explosions also follow a similar path)

When you over ride, you damage yourself. when you damage yourself. You are closer to destroying your own mech by over ride. Which is easy for certain mechs that have weapons hot enough on hot maps to push it way about 100% that if you over ride it's nearly certain you are going to lose a side torso or your cockpit. There is rarely a 0 damage over ride unless you are a very cold mech that went from 100% 9barely hitting it) to 70% while you are simply powering down alone.

As much as suicide as it is eating bananas.

[V O L T R O N]

Nightshade24, on 12 October 2015 - 02:42 AM, said:

Correction, it is to prevent a shut down that is occurs to prevent extensive system damage and integrity to a mech that has breached it's heat capacity (in MW: O this is 100% but in TT would have a low chance of occurring at mid-high heats onwards with chances increasing closer and closer till 100% is certain, ammo explosions also follow a similar path)

When you over ride, you damage yourself. when you damage yourself. You are closer to destroying your own mech by over ride. Which is easy for certain mechs that have weapons hot enough on hot maps to push it way about 100% that if you over ride it's nearly certain you are going to lose a side torso or your cockpit. There is rarely a 0 damage over ride unless you are a very cold mech that went from 100% 9barely hitting it) to 70% while you are simply powering down alone.

As much as suicide as it is eating bananas.

Well, I feel more people use it as a suicide last alpha or they run off and kill themselves with it more so than using it properly. Death isnt a goal.

Nightshade24, on 12 October 2015 - 02:42 AM, said:

Correction, it is to prevent a shut down that is occurs to prevent extensive system damage and integrity to a mech that has breached it's heat capacity (in MW: O this is 100% but in TT would have a low chance of occurring at mid-high heats onwards with chances increasing closer and closer till 100% is certain, ammo explosions also follow a similar path)

When you over ride, you damage yourself. when you damage yourself. You are closer to destroying your own mech by over ride. Which is easy for certain mechs that have weapons hot enough on hot maps to push it way about 100% that if you over ride it's nearly certain you are going to lose a side torso or your cockpit. There is rarely a 0 damage over ride unless you are a very cold mech that went from 100% 9barely hitting it) to 70% while you are simply powering down alone.

As much as suicide as it is eating bananas.

Well, I feel more people use it as a suicide last alpha or they run off and kill themselves with it more so than using it properly. Death isnt a goal.

[Nightshade24]

V O L T R O N, on 12 October 2015 - 05:29 AM, said:

Well, I feel more people use it as a suicide last alpha or they run off and kill themselves with it more so than using it properly. Death isnt a goal.


Well, I feel more people use it as a suicide last alpha or they run off and kill themselves with it more so than using it properly. Death isnt a goal.

death isn't a goal, it is a penalty, thus a penalty for a penalty is a silly idea because that slightly diminishes the idea of the first penalty to begin with.

1 last alpha before you die is very valid. the effects of it in the end game is much more easier to observe then early game but doing 40-80 damage+ before dying is pretty good- compared to nothing.
But in the end, say it's a 3 vs 2, 1 of your guys is nearly crippled, another is a little bit battle able but is cored in a few areas, and then there's you, close to destruction but still have a lot of weapons. 2 (approximate) enemies remaining , ones mroe fresher and battle ready, other not so much.

sacrificing yourself while under fire to dish out critical damage to the enemy- disabling it's firepower or destroying it while running critical into the head spectrum ,hitting over 100% would push you to victory but high risk of getting out yourself then the alternate
Which is 1 of your guys die because he was about to, you die because your mech is already falling to pieces, and then you got 1 enemy with equal condition to your remaining guy and a near fresh enemy as well with him.

An example of a possibility. In the early game this would translate better to simply not being useless due to NASCAR or what ever when you are caught in a bad spot and instead of sitting there uselessly accepting your fate you go throw a good fight before going down.

However as much as a final alpha may seem as heroic or selfish depending if you are on the recieving end or the sendin' end.
The thing is it wouldn't matter much for the enemy if they win, The enemy dies and they get a salvage bonus and/or kill assist (which gives more c-bills) then getting a kill. for the other end well most people who do turn to 'suicide' (which is not common in the terms of intentional non combat) it's typically because they are crippled or very disadvantaged.

One game I had I was legged and crippled at the shores of river city to the ocean side, however I was very far from combat (something like 1500 meters or more? I was the complete other end) and the only weapon I had was like a nearly out of ammo UAC 5 (like 25 shots left, which means for clanners 5 bursts) and an ER small laser. No enemies are around, they are all over on the opposite side and I can't do anything, but the boundries was less than a half minute away unlike the battlefield which is on the opposite side of the map probably around 2 to 4 minutes travel (and the game is already dwindling on the last few minutes and I couldn't do anything else, in the situation my team failed, the enemy doesn't have much time to come get me, even if I do reveal my own position which would look VERY suspicious to the enemy team seeing the last enemy guy alive you haven't seen awhile himself say "hey I'm in D1 come and get me". Decided to not waste anyones time and went out of bounds because there is no Eject in normal games- which brings me to the point....


Why not simply eject? if the eject button is available for normal game then it would remove the reason to suicide outside of combat?

[Kjudoon]

Run out of bounds you lose all cbills and xp from the match. Are you wanting puniticlve damages instead? If so no... Hard core no. I want a no penalty eject instead.

[V O L T R O N]

This is a 12vs12 pvp game and people can drop alone, this isnt battletech or lore, and it never will be. CW has an eject button.

[Vellron2005]

I'm down for out-of-bounds penalties being harsh, since 90% of those are intentional.

Overheating should not be sanctioned at all, since 90% of that is completely "oh flack, wtf happened? Who got me? Oh.. I'm a dumbarse... overheated again... darn... sigh "

[Kjudoon]

V O L T R O N, on 13 October 2015 - 04:34 AM, said:

This is a 12vs12 pvp game and people can drop alone, this isnt battletech or lore, and it never will be. CW has an eject button.

And yes, that eject button should be in every mode without penalty. An obviously won match, should allow a person to cede the battlefield to an obviously superior victor?

Why do you think someone owes you their dignity or self respect when decisively won? I see no reason for this and find any claim to this entitlement as offensive at the least. On principle alone, I'd want an eject to deny anyone with this mindset their goal of killing everything.

I'm sorry, this just sounds completely vindictive and callow.

[Lily from animove]

V O L T R O N, on 12 October 2015 - 05:29 AM, said:

Well, I feel more people use it as a suicide last alpha or they run off and kill themselves with it more so than using it properly. Death isnt a goal.


Well, I feel more people use it as a suicide last alpha or they run off and kill themselves with it more so than using it properly. Death isnt a goal.

Suicide overheat is not used to suicide, it is a matter of "opportunaty costs" If I step in a situation whee I will die for sure at 100%, ther eis no reaosn to do a tactical override suicide when this allows you to dish out 20more damage or 50 by another strike compared to shutdown and get shot to pieces. This action is nto done to suicide, it is done to be as much efficient in terms of opposing your opponent as possible with your remaining (expected very short) lifetime.

you will never really setup a system that is able to decide the difference between a match denying suicide and a "Last strike do as much damage before I die" action suicide.

And I consider someone running out of bounds a better opponent than someone hiding in his light mehc just for "saving" from out of bounds suicide penalties. Because the first one will not waste anyones time.

penalties would be needed for people who deny participating the battle and just increase the match length from the inevitable that will happen anyways. But you will not be able to differ these people from those who just end the inevitable quicker. Which is totally fine.

[V O L T R O N]

Lily from animove, on 13 October 2015 - 04:55 AM, said:

And I consider someone running out of bounds a better opponent than someone hiding in his light mehc just for "saving" from out of bounds suicide penalties. Because the first one will not waste anyones time.

Hiding to save your k/d is against the rules, read them.

[Yozaa]

I hear what your saying, however under the current suicide no penalty, ejecting would save time

[Makenzie71]

Overheating is often not a suicide. It's an accident. Unless you could get ingame proof that it was done to suicide then it'd be hard to prove it was intentional.

Out of bounds, though, should net a zero score.