74 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 12 October 2015 - 02:10 PM, said:

The Mantle of the Forumwarrior™ is a heavy burden to bear.

I guess that means I'll have to carry more.

Does your mech lift bro?

[BoldricKent]

Highlander will be topped with 275 engine, XL....with ferro/endo, this mech may be limited by
slots number....but not by size and ammo...i think, it has good chance of matching Dire in alpha,
and outlast him in endurance....especially if those JJ will be optional too.

[FupDup]

BoldricKent, on 12 October 2015 - 02:24 PM, said:

Highlander will be topped with 275 engine, XL....with ferro/endo, this mech may be limited by
slots number....but not by size and ammo...i think, it has good chance of matching Dire in alpha,
and outlast him in endurance....especially if those JJ will be optional too.

Actually the Lowlander IIC will have up to 325 engine, just like the IS Lowlander.

[J0anna]

To the OP, that would be one possible way to balance weapons, but Russ has already said he doesn't want to advance the timeline just yet. However there are other problems:

The tech 2 (and 3) IS weapons will have to be nerfed down to current clan levels to match the IIC ability, however that would render most (if not all) omnimechs grossly inferior, and lets not mention the IS omnimechs which will be totally ignored.

Tech 2 (and tech 3) IS weapons are very deadly (think 4x MRM 40 stalker or 4x RAC 5 Cataphract), easily able to one shot any light, medium and some heavies. While I have no problem with this, expect a storm of protest on these forums. As anyone who played TT w/3060 mechs can tell you, they are far more deadly.

All the people who whine that tech 1 weapons should be viable, will quickly realize that they are now almost completely useless (as they should be).

PGI started this ball rolling by changing the major balance mechanism in battletech, heat. More specifically the heat scale. Heat sinks should never increase the heat scale, only the heat dissipation rate. The heat scale needs to be immediately reset and hard locked @ 30. Also, moving fast (i.e. running) needs to generate more heat than walking (with jumping even more than running), not that you overheat if you run, only that you have a higher base heat while running. Once that is done, weapons should be tweaked from their TT values to help balance them. It would allow far more powerful weapons, but lower TTK as you can only fire a few of them at once (and allow us to remove the silly ghost heat issue and maybe even make double heat sinks true doubles). Lastly, mechs that lack weapon hard points or tonnage, should not get massive damage boosts, but instead large armor and structure boosts with only moderate weapon boosts.

I have said it repeatedly, if you balance clan weapons against 3050 IS weapons you will have no choice but to nerf future IS weapons down to this level. In essence, the game will be stuck forever at 3050 damage levels. So every change, ever weapon improvement, will be more of the same as we have now. Not to mention, what would you balance the RAC, Heavy Gauss or MRM against? The clans have no equivalent unless you include tech 3 weapons for clans.

[MechWarrior5152251]

None of them have ECM so still nothing as broken as the Arctic Cheetah....

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

December 15th. It's mid-October now. Two months till... (Hopefully the Marauder and Warhammer released a few days earlier will soften the blow)

No news means one of two things. They have no plan to balance the mechs yet... or... the plan they have would piss people off and deter people from preordering before they have a chance to try it.

But the thing is... December 15th? I wonder who all will be on vacation till next year? After all it is holiday time.

[CtrlAltWheee]

Moenrg, on 12 October 2015 - 02:44 PM, said:

PGI started this ball rolling by changing the major balance mechanism in battletech, heat. More specifically the heat scale. Heat sinks should never increase the heat scale, only the heat dissipation rate. The heat scale needs to be immediately reset and hard locked @ 30. Also, moving fast (i.e. running) needs to generate more heat than walking (with jumping even more than running), not that you overheat if you run, only that you have a higher base heat while running. Once that is done, weapons should be tweaked from their TT values to help balance them. It would allow far more powerful weapons, but lower TTK as you can only fire a few of them at once (and allow us to remove the silly ghost heat issue and maybe even make double heat sinks true doubles). Lastly, mechs that lack weapon hard points or tonnage, should not get massive damage boosts, but instead large armor and structure boosts with only moderate weapon boosts.

THIS would be a great public test idea.

[ilKhan_OrHan]

I'm all for an immediate time leap to 3060 so IS purists can finally get serious with such enhancements as 3060 IS weapon tech already mentioned and more, LFE engines, possibly superior IS mechs, etc.

Option of a 3025 tech only game mode would appeal to purists as well that feel TTK is too low ATM.

Clan tech has left a gaping imbalance, even post nerf to the Clan weapon systems that only a time leap to 3060 at least will remedy.

I also want a time leap to 3060 so I can further PUG ROFL stomp the IS in CW with Blood Asp/Arctic Cheetah drop decks. If you understand tactics, you can defeat premades (everyone except BMMU) right now in CW as Clan, per the current tech imbalance.

Origins IIC pack and any further IIC packs only highlight the need for a timeleap. Marauder and Warhammer look nice but I predict will be inferior to Timberwolf and Hellbringer respectively.

Edited by ilKhan_OrHan, 12 October 2015 - 03:55 PM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

I do 500+ damage in my oxide regularly with 800 damage matches not being impossible. Usually my damage is limited by my ammo count. Now...add another 2 SRM4 and 2 tons of ammo to my oxide... yeah... Jenner IIC is gonna become death destroyer of mechs.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 12 October 2015 - 11:41 AM, said:

They cant get enough ppl to play test server lol

That's because

1) Most of the player base never reads the forums which is the only way to find if when there's a PTS

2) They give us no incentive to test the game for them

Seriously, add a semi-weekly PTS and throw 100 MC at us. Yeah that's 2100 MC a year, but it's not like they aren't gaining valuable data from us for doing so. Hell, if they don't wanna give us MC, 1 million cbills for 2 hours of testing wouldn't be a bad incentive and I know I can go through more that 26 million cbills just to master a single mech,.

[Metus regem]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 12 October 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

Im lookin at you Shadowhawk - sez the Hunchback



I remember how they said we could never have true double heat sinks cause "6 second Jenner"

what about when this hits? Lol

As soon as I saw IIC's being offered, I started laughing, true not the best of the IIC mechs, bust still damn nasty lot! The Hunchback IIC will be able to run twin Gauss, with paper armour, but twin Gauss....

[Aethon]

Khobai, on 12 October 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

its still all speculation

we dont know how PGI is going to balance them

for all we know theyll have tons of negative quirks

Or maybe they will just get quirked like the Loyalty Executioner.

Total quirks:
+2.5% XP







...yep, that is it.

[Alex Morgaine]

Rear line / solhama units in cw, leading the way for Thier weaker omni superiors.
LolLore. Urg the grognard in me crys out.
When they do this there may be lots of damage to game play imo. I'd almost say restrict non omni clan battlemechs to free mode and cw:defense only as they aren't supposed to be front line mechs, but core rule I suppose.

Edited by Frosty Brand, 12 October 2015 - 04:47 PM.

[Chuanhao]

Clan vs IS

Before the clans came out, some pain was put into explaining how "balance" will be achieved. e.g. Clan ACs being multishot vs IS singleshot to balance the lower weight and crit requirements. I appreciate the communication and the spirit of the effort.

Overall, however, balance has still not been achieved and we are still awaiting further news. And even though that has yet to be completed, now we have the:

Origins

Which is almost the best of both clan and IS less ability to OMNIPOD. This "disadvantage" will not deter any meta warrior however.

There has no mention of balance except from forum warriors. That is worrying.

I just hope Origins does not cause the same effect that the introduction of Armor with the Arsenal Expansion did for the CCG - speed up is demise.


I am hoping for a truly inspiring November and December roadmap as Russ has announced.

[sceii]

How to wreck clans for dummies.
Step one pilot thunderbolt.
Step two wreck clams.
TDR IS SIMPLY BETTER THEN ANY CLAN MECH.

[Golden Vulf]

Aethon, on 12 October 2015 - 04:41 PM, said:

Or maybe they will just get quirked like the Loyalty Executioner.

Total quirks:
+2.5% XP







...yep, that is it.

The thing has 18 tons of hard locked equipment, no endosteel, and a 380 xl that it can't remove. Also a massive torso hit box. It could do with some green quirks.

Edited by Golden Vulf, 12 October 2015 - 07:09 PM.

[Illya Ghost Bear]

Khobai, on 12 October 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

its still all speculation

we dont know how PGI is going to balance them

for all we know theyll have tons of negative quirks

probably about as well as they have balanced everything else.

[Livewyr]

I'm wagering it will be ridiculous.
Either it won't be touched, or there will be a "solution" that is neither clever nor fun.

[Lightfoot]

That's why Clan Mechlab should not have fixed equipment now. It creates a false balance and a lot of useless mechs. They can just give them all fixed engines, but nothing else. Then they are all balanced, but still have the unique omnipods or hardpoints. This is what I have been saying for along time and it is correct, but, not going to worry about it.





.

Edited by Lightfoot, 12 October 2015 - 08:05 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Its still going to come down to which IIc's will have the most hardpoints, and overall geometry flaws.

Tbh, I don't think they're going to be any more OP or UP than any other clan mechs.

With Heatscale as is, being able to carry heavy weapons and adjusting your engine speed isn't going to change much,

Especially with the Heatscale limits that we've dealt with for the last year with Clanmechs, we all know their limits and builds are going to be similar if not downright clones of what other clanmechs have been running for months.

Heaviest builds to come out are going to be the same things we deal with now, which is Gauss & ERML/LPL vomit, or Jenners with CSPL's just like the ACH we got right now.

Hunchy might be able to pull off dual UAC-10's or something like that.
Jenner is still going to be a great light because the IS one (without Quirks btw) is still amazing and its just going to get better with C-XL+CDHS and CSPL&ERML.

Hunchback & Jenner are going to be the cream of the crop on this batch of mutant clan monsters, just watch.

Orion is still going to be an Orion, but with Clan-XL might actually be a contender.
Highlander.. dunno, but the IS highlander hasn't been good since JJ's got nerfed and went downhill fast after clans, I don't really see that changing much just because it gets Clan tech.

I still don't think its going to be anything new that we haven't seen already in terms of game changers.

Might be a good excuse to get IS guys into using clantech without feeling like a traitor is all