59 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

ok. let me get one thing straight: i hate lerms. not so much being hit by them (they kind of suck and have more counters than you can shake a stick at) as using them. i cant imagine anything more boring than hiding behind a rock and shooting rockets at a mech i haven't even seen yet. it makes the game very very dull and monotonous.

enter psr. under psr and my dreaded t3 rank it is almost impossible to level things. my psr has been in a downward spiral since my position was revealed to me. starting 3 pixels from the t2 side of the bar and slowly over the past several weeks cross below the 75% boundary. none of my builds have been doing a damn thing to reverse the trend.

so while leveling an ebj-c, and failing to progress to basic with srm, streak, or ballistics builds, i did the unthinkable. i equipped 4 lrm15s, grabbed the prime left torso omni (so i can carry a tag), threw on bap and a mk3 targeting computer, and 1530 missiles. for backup weapons, 2 machine guns and a ton of ammo. dredful use of this fine mech. after several games in it i seem to have progressed several pixels.

you think psr would reward skill oriented builds, its a shame i can half ass it with lerms and make progress back towards t2. stop this bloody insanity before i stick lerms on the other 6 mechs im leveling right now (unfortunately only 3 of those can wield lerms).

[Nothing Whatsoever]

yeah, I ain't doin' dat.

[El Bandito]

LordNothing, on 11 October 2015 - 01:18 AM, said:

you think psr would reward skill oriented builds, its a shame i can half ass it with lerms and make progress back towards t2. stop this bloody insanity before i stick lerms on the other 6 mechs im leveling right now (unfortunately only 3 of those can wield lerms).

Good luck trying to do constantly well with the LRM60 EBJ in high tier. T3 is populated with enough half-assed players that LRMs work most of the time. PSR is simply letting you to advance over scrubs with little concept of cover.

Actually I am very surprised that regular laservomit/gaussvomit/dakka EBJ builds do not work in T3.
I think it is just you sucking at EBJs. When I leveled basic EBJs and even the Adder in T1, my PSR still went up.

Edited by El Bandito, 11 October 2015 - 01:28 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

El Bandito, on 11 October 2015 - 01:25 AM, said:

Good luck trying to do well with the LRM60 EBJ in high tier. T3 is populated with enough half-assed players that LRMs work most fo the time.

Actually I am very surprised that regular laservomit/gaussvomit/dakka EBJ builds do not work in T3.
I think it is just you sucking at EBJs. When I leveled basic EBJs and even the Adder in T1, my PSR still went up.

Sometimes the teams are so bad that you have virtually no chance to get 400 damage (I play mostly light and meds, though) to prevent a psr loss - especially when leveling. I had yesterday 6 rolls 1-2 to 12 in a row. 6 times the arrow went down

[El Bandito]

Bush Hopper, on 11 October 2015 - 01:28 AM, said:

Sometimes the teams are so bad that you have virtually no chance to get 400 damage (I play mostly light and meds, though) to prevent a psr loss - especially when leveling. I had yesterday 6 rolls 1-2 to 12 in a row. 6 times the arrow went down

Such things can happen, sure. But over dozens of matches is highly unlikely, once one figures out how to position himself in battle.

[LordNothing]

El Bandito, on 11 October 2015 - 01:25 AM, said:

Good luck trying to do constantly well with the LRM60 EBJ in high tier. T3 is populated with enough half-assed players that LRMs work most of the time. PSR is simply letting you to advance over scrubs with little concept of cover.

Actually I am very surprised that regular laservomit/gaussvomit/dakka EBJ builds do not work in T3.
I think it is just you sucking at EBJs. When I leveled basic EBJs and even the Adder in T1, my PSR still went up.

i admit being rather unimpressed with the chassis in terms of its durability. i guess when you have really good omnipods and pod space, something else has to suck somewhere.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

El Bandito, on 11 October 2015 - 01:35 AM, said:

Such things can happen, sure. But over dozens of matches is highly unlikely, once one figures out how to position himself in battle.

I dunno man, have you seen some of those tier 3 matches...

Honestly though, its possible to at least get = on the PSR in some situations, but when your team is terrible it takes some godly luck and a bit of skill. Some of my moments I think back to a lot are when I pilot Executioners and have a team that refuses to push anywhere so I go off attacking from different directions and manage to kill a whole lance by the time my team has withered away from LRMs and poking while they hide in their little corner. Of course at that point I tend die fighting the entire enemy team, but I at least did fine in the match.

[Alistair Winter]

To consistently do well with LRM boats against unskilled opponents requires no skill at all. That's why so many people hate them. Just park your mech in cover where your LRMs have a somewhat clear path towards the enemy and wait for your teammates to do some spotting and put up UAVs.

To consistently do well with LRM boats against skilled opponents is a different story alltogether. If you can do that, you're just a good player, plain and simple. The fact that it's boring doesn't matter to the most competitive players. They'll do whatever they can to win.

I do think that LRM boating gets boring after a while. But I would say the same about any kind of boat, whether you're carrying energy weapons, missiles or ballistics. My PPC Warhawk and PPC Awesome are some of my most cherished mechs, but it does get a bit boring to play them after a while. And after playing boats for a while, I go back to my more balanced builds, like the Highlanders, Victors or Centurions. And after a while of getting my ass handed to me by laservomit robots, I start to feel more motivated to play my boats again

[El Bandito]

Dakota1000, on 11 October 2015 - 01:44 AM, said:

I dunno man, have you seen some of those tier 3 matches...

Honestly though, its possible to at least get = on the PSR in some situations, but when your team is terrible it takes some godly luck and a bit of skill. Some of my moments I think back to a lot are when I pilot Executioners and have a team that refuses to push anywhere so I go off attacking from different directions and manage to kill a whole lance by the time my team has withered away from LRMs and poking while they hide in their little corner. Of course at that point I tend die fighting the entire enemy team, but I at least did fine in the match.

Now I feel like starting an alt account and see what this T3 hullabaloo is all about. I mean, it can't be worse than the Elo system we had before, right?

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Back in elo days it seemed there was a somewhat larger skill difference, lots of people didn't know how to aim is what I remember. Now its mostly lots of people forgot to bind their firing keys. Really you'll notice lots of games where people just hide, no matter how much of a lead they get or how much you tell them to push. Every once in awhile though you'll get a team that will move in.

One issue with T3 is that we get mixed in with any tier, so some games you'll have good players (good teams) and you can move in and do well with them, other times you get some pretty bad players who can't hit the broad side of an Awesome or just shoot from 1km away with small lasers.

I really don't know for sure how a game with *only* tier 3 players would be.

[LordNothing]

elo did allow for one thing: fun builds. i could make anything work under elo, and would still have a blast. swings between winning and loosing streaks were more balanced. now its like the loosing/winning streaks seem to be 3:1 in duration. might loose 15 games in a row and then win 5. good even games lie at the boundaries between swings.

if you switched from your t1 builds to level stuff, elo would actually drop you after about 10 games and you could level faster. psr on the other hand cant adjust so well to switches between competitive mechs and crap you are working on.

[Kodyn]

Finding it extremely easy to progress using typical laser vomit builds and fun dakka builds on clan mechs. Started off lower T3, and now I'm very close to T2, probably be there by the end of the week if I have enough time to get some matches in.

Not sure what game you're playing that you're finding it easier to LRM on clan mechs than use direct fire builds.

Also, the better LRM pilots almost never fire without line of sight, they move around with the team and get their own locks, skirmishing and providing support whenever there's a fight. I still can't stand using them, but when I do, I try to do this.

[Mordin Ashe]

The only good advice anyone can give you to tier up is to get as much damage as you can and place it precisely into enemy Mechs. Good LRMs are about this as well, as Kodyn already said. LRMs with LOS needs launcher but not that much ammo, meaning you can afford to keep solid backup weapons. This together works miracles. LRMs are area denial but basically they are a fire-support thingie. Take two or three LLS, PPCs, gausses or anything to back them up.

[MischiefSC]

Meta is meta for a reason. Run something laservomit. It's not too tough to run ~500 damage and ~1.5 w/l even in T2, not to mention chewing up from T3.

Don't fall in to bad habits. Whenever you play you're practicing something; practicing how to play poorly is just going to make playing in T2 more difficult.

****edited to add****

However, why does it matter? I'd say what's far more important is to play what you enjoy and how you enjoy. The whole 'tier' thing isn't any different than the game was before it came out. Play what is fun for you. If you're really competitive and winning is really important to you, play the meta and practice that. It'll serve you well both in increasing your PSR as well as the sort of play it'll get you.

Edited by MischiefSC, 11 October 2015 - 02:40 AM.

[STEF_]

In my drops I see lurmers to be eaten alive.

I guess it's all about aiming skills; average and steering wheels prefer and do dmg with lrm.
While higher tiers, being able to aim, prefer gauss/ppc and lezors, also because they know how not to be hit by lrms, and they also know how to go close and brawl them to death.

I like to push and brawl, btw... being aggressive makes me happy.
And I cannot do it with lrm.....

[KharnZor]

Lurms not lerms

[Antares102]

KharnZor, on 11 October 2015 - 03:04 AM, said:

Lurms not lerms

We all know what the OP meant.
Stop being a spelling-jerk.

Edited by Antares102, 11 October 2015 - 03:13 AM.

[Appogee]

EBJ is my go-to Mech for increasing my PSR.

But there are no lurms on it.

Edited by Appogee, 11 October 2015 - 03:38 AM.

[Doman Hugin]

What most people forget is that contributing to a win is what counts most, your personal skill just says how much.

And what LRM's are good at is contributing to that win, not in the damage but in being able to force people to move when you want them to move.
In the lower tiers I imagine that getting the other team running for cover, stopping enemies shooting as they hear "missiles incoming" and panic. etc.
In higher tiers, getting that one assault to back off from the firing line, area denial by lobbing single volleys at multiple mechs, all this contributes to more wins than losses, you have to play aggressive, the number of times i've taken too much damage and realized i'm the one leading the push.

Don't get me wrong i'll also take full advantage of indirect locks (more damage and assists for me).

I love my HBK-4J, (not standard loadout - but suits me) It takes skill, patience (I lack that one too often) and a lot of situational awareness to do well with LRM's.

So if a new player wants to play LRM's I say go for it, you are likely be the sit at the back type to start with, but once you've been flanked once too often you'll learn to stick with the team. Then you'll start seeing the effect your missiles have on people, and if you gain the skill to use that, wins will follow.

[Sjorpha]

LordNothing, on 11 October 2015 - 02:11 AM, said:

elo did allow for one thing: fun builds. i could make anything work under elo, and would still have a blast. swings between winning and loosing streaks were more balanced. now its like the loosing/winning streaks seem to be 3:1 in duration. might loose 15 games in a row and then win 5. good even games lie at the boundaries between swings. if you switched from your t1 builds to level stuff, elo would actually drop you after about 10 games and you could level faster. psr on the other hand cant adjust so well to switches between competitive mechs and crap you are working on.

Russ said explicitly in a town hall that one of the problems with ELO was that it didn't actually change much for solo players when needed, so this idea of ELO changing significantly in 10 matches is complete nonsense.

And there is one thing the MM cannot actually do, it can't change the mathematical reality that the total win/loss averaged over the player base is exactly 1/1, for obvious reasons. I see all these posts claiming that PSR makes them lose, ok so the system is very new and some people got seeded too high and haven't dropped down yet. I can agreed these people should be dropped down to their proper tier faster.

If you are consistently losing more than you win you are currently rated too high and need to drop, which means you have to lose enough matches for the MM to drop you. There is no way around that in any MM system.

There is also no benefit whatsoever to use special one trick pony strategies to rise in PSR. All that will achieve is to inflate you rating to a point where your trick no longer works and you'll be out of your liege in other builds as well. The only result is that you deliberately try to create bad games for yourself, how stupid is that?

Edited by Sjorpha, 11 October 2015 - 03:59 AM.