135 replies to this topic

[Kristian Radoulov]

l2aim OP

[Roosterfish]

The OP in his Dire Wolf got caught alone in the prison shower by a Arctic Cheetah and Firestarter then they proceeded to break him open like a breech-loading shotgun.

Show us on the paperdoll where the mean lights touched you.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Roosterfish, on 12 October 2015 - 07:58 PM, said:

The OP in his Dire Wolf got caught alone in the prison shower by a Arctic Cheetah and Firestarter then they proceeded to break him open like a breech-loading shotgun.

Show us on the paperdoll where the mean lights touched you.

Lol, no need to show... we all know where

http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/B001V9X4G6

^^ This is what I use after my assault encounters any decent light mech.

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 12 October 2015 - 08:14 PM.

[Davers]

Endost33L, on 12 October 2015 - 07:43 PM, said:

Changing game mechanics usually refers to a more general overall change in a game, balancing some mechs that are out of hand is something different.
There are light mechs that need that balance. For example 2 days ago i bought an FSH-A and started leveling it , in my second match i did ~750 dmg and 4 kills (lost the game tho damit) first thing that came in my mind was what is going to happen if i elite this one up, its allready performing amazingy
Another guy streaming this week facekilled 3 assaults in his ACH (heimdelight?) in a 10 second period (that was awesome btw), these things of course piss off players and they are going to ask for balance, you cannot deny that nomatter how biased you are.

If you were in a heavy or assault mech you wouldn't bat an eye at doing 750 damage. Why is the idea that light mechs can do the same so offensive to people?

[Endost33L]

Davers, on 12 October 2015 - 08:13 PM, said:

If you were in a heavy or assault mech you wouldn't bat an eye at doing 750 damage. Why is the idea that light mechs can do the same so offensive to people?

So you disagree that there are light mechs that need balancing, everything is fine and rozy right? nothing to see here-let's move on?

Edited by Endost33L, 12 October 2015 - 08:26 PM.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Davers, on 12 October 2015 - 08:13 PM, said:

If you were in a heavy or assault mech you wouldn't bat an eye at doing 750 damage. Why is the idea that light mechs can do the same so offensive to people?

So lights:
Small hit boxes (huge advantage)
Fast (huge advantage)

Assaults:
Giant hitboxes (huge disadvantage)
Slow (huge disadvantage)
Armor is meaningless b/c a light can bypass it by going around you, and everything else can't miss you (huge disadvantage)

Why again should lights also be able to do as much damage as assaults?

[Ultimax]

If you don't like being out maneuvered all the time and killed from behind in your slow, weapons platform, then play something else or join a team.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 12 October 2015 - 08:37 PM.

[ZenFool]

CoD syndrome. PGI is trying to make a CoD clone, where every type of unit(mech) has an advantage. If that's how it is going to be, then lights make sense.

In BattleTech, lights did NOT have firepower. They had speed and sensor suites that painted targets for their heavies/assaults.


IF this game had true info warfare instead of GodMode ECM and super radar, then light mechs would have a place.

Instead the had to give super quirks to make lights viable, and even then people aren't playing lights outside of the trash mech CW filler.

Make MWO like MechWarrior and the problem ceases to exist. So long as we have stompy robot CoD, expect this BS.

[Davers]

Endost33L, on 12 October 2015 - 08:24 PM, said:

So you disagree that there are light mechs that need balancing, everything is fine and rozy right? nothing to see here-let's move on?

In your opinion should lights be able to do the same damage as assaults? Do you think their role is to stay out of the way and TAG targets while the "Real Mechs" fight?

The Atlas Overlord, on 12 October 2015 - 08:26 PM, said:

So lights:
Small hit boxes (huge advantage)
Fast (huge advantage)

Assaults:
Giant hitboxes (huge disadvantage)
Slow (huge disadvantage)
Armor is meaningless b/c a light can bypass it by going around you, and everything else can't miss you (huge disadvantage)

Why again should lights also be able to do as much damage as assaults?

Because every mech on the field should be equal, and the only thing that is important (in game, and economically) is the ability to do damage.

[Djinnhammer]

FupDup, on 12 October 2015 - 06:27 PM, said:

The SPL builds tend to be high-risk-high-reward in that they require you to get really really close to get the full damage...yes you can get there "quickly" but getting there without attracting a lot of attention and/or gunfire is easier said than done. Midrange builds like, say, the 4 ERML Cheeto, are a lot more versatile, consistent, and "safe" to use.

I only have 1/3 cheetahs built around even 400m range. It's suicidal to even try to get close with all the skillsault alphas flying around. This fabled AC god mode armour doesn't seem to be fitted to mine, as yet I have yet to shrug off even ONE HIT with my "god boxes."

[Davers]

ZenFool, on 12 October 2015 - 08:40 PM, said:

CoD syndrome. PGI is trying to make a CoD clone, where every type of unit(mech) has an advantage. If that's how it is going to be, then lights make sense.

In BattleTech, lights did NOT have firepower. They had speed and sensor suites that painted targets for their heavies/assaults.


IF this game had true info warfare instead of GodMode ECM and super radar, then light mechs would have a place.

I think the only IS mech in game that had 'sensor stuff' was the Raven 3L. All the rest just carried weapons.

[Khobai]

Quote

In BattleTech, lights did NOT have firepower.

in battletech 3-4 lights were also equal to 1 assault in terms of battlevalue

But in MWO, 1 light has to equal 1 assault, so lights need some added advantages they didnt have in battletech

light mechs arnt the problem. theyre the least played weight class for good reason.

the problem is convergence... thats what people are really complaining about when a light mech puts 6 lasers into their back and cores them out.

Edited by Khobai, 12 October 2015 - 09:00 PM.

[Homeskilit]

Kind of random but I was playing my Cicida 2B and was having a good time running around shooting stuff with my pulse lasers and I thought to myself "man this would be awesome if it had jump jets like the 3F or an ECM like the 3M". Then I realized the Cheetah had all of that and I was a little sad.

Also

Davers, on 12 October 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

Because every mech on the field should be equal, and the only thing that is important (in game, and economically) is the ability to do damage.

No, no, and more no. This is MechWarrior Online and the mechs are its identity, not the weapons (like in a classic shooter). The greater the variety of mechs and roles the better off the game will be. As has been stated, the problem is there are no satisfying or rewarding roles outside of mech-killer.

Edited by Homeskilit, 12 October 2015 - 09:02 PM.

[InRev]

ZenFool, on 12 October 2015 - 08:40 PM, said:

In BattleTech, lights did NOT have firepower.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jenner

"the Jenner was meant to be a fast guerrilla fighter [...] A favorite tactic of Jenner lances was to gang up on larger 'Mechs and unleash a devastating alpha strike"

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Adder_(Puma)

"the Adder is a light Clan OmniMech that serves as a direct or an indirect fire-support unit in most of its configurations"

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Panther

"The design was originally commissioned in 2739 at the behest of the Star League to provide fire support for other light, fast-moving 'Mech units"

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Wolfhound

"Archon Katrina Steiner ordered TharHes Industries to produce a BattleMech to address a persistent problem of the Lyran Commonwealth Armed Forces: hunting down and destroying the Panther and Jenner"

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/UrbanMech

"The UrbanMech was designed for just what its name suggests, urban combat and defense. "

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hollander

"The Hollander was introduced in 3054 specifically to carry a Gauss Rifle into combat and act as a sniper."

http://www.sarna.net...mer_(BattleMech)

"The Hammer is a 'Mech that was built to provide fire support for light 'Mechs."


Please tell me more about these TT lights that didn't have firepower, because it sure is easy to find lights that would pack a lot of firepower.

In fact, this was such a common concept that the Lyrans went out of their way to design their own heavily armed light to combat the Panthers and Jenners that the Dracs were using to embarrass the Steiner assaults.

Lights as just scouts is a myth, even in TT.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Ultimatum X, on 12 October 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

If you don't like being out maneuvered all the time and killed from behind in your slow, weapons platform, then play something else or join a team.

See that's the thing...

Since lights get the advantages of being small and fast....AND get lots of firepower..... AND can easily bypass the "benefit" of an assaults armor... they're actually the weapons platform.

Davers, on 12 October 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

Because every mech on the field should be equal, and the only thing that is important (in game, and economically) is the ability to do damage.

And we currently play the MWO that uses this philosophy... and it's just bad.

[Davers]

Homeskilit, on 12 October 2015 - 08:58 PM, said:

No, no, and more no. This is MechWarrior Online and the mechs are its identity, not the weapons (like in a classic shooter). The greater the variety of mechs and roles the better off the game will be. As has been stated, the problem is there are no satisfying or rewarding roles outside of mech-killer.

Viable weapons create greater variety of mechs. You can't talk about one without the other.

Yes, mech killer is the only role in the game. So all mechs should be good at killing mechs. There is no place in MWO for a mech that cannot pull it's own weight in damage.

The Atlas Overlord, on 12 October 2015 - 09:08 PM, said:

And we currently play the MWO that uses this philosophy... and it's just bad.

Sorry that it's not a game where assault mechs are super powerful and all lighter mechs tremble at their approach. Actually, I'm not.

[Hunchening]

Tier b4 Tear plz

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Davers, on 12 October 2015 - 09:10 PM, said:

Yes, mech killer is the only role in the game. So all mechs should be good at killing mechs. There is no place in the current MWO for a mech that cannot pull it's own weight in damage.

1) Better not change anything, or we might get a game with some depth.

2) Gimping assault mechs into uselessness isn't "light mechs pulling their weight"

Davers, on 12 October 2015 - 09:10 PM, said:

Sorry that it's not a game where assault mechs are super powerful and all lighter mechs tremble at their approach. Actually, I'm not.

Of course not, Halo with mechs is great right?

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 12 October 2015 - 09:19 PM.

[Adiuvo]

The Atlas Overlord, on 12 October 2015 - 09:18 PM, said:

2) Gimping assault mechs into uselessness isn't "light mechs pulling their weight"

If you learned how to play something besides LRMs you miiiiiiight not feel that way.

[Homeskilit]

Davers, on 12 October 2015 - 09:10 PM, said:

Viable weapons create greater variety of mechs. You can't talk about one without the other.

Weapons do need to be balanced and they do go hand in hand but if all the mechs were equal what is the point in having mechs of different masses?

Davers, on 12 October 2015 - 09:10 PM, said:

Yes, mech killer is the only role in the game. So all mechs should be good at killing mechs. There is no place in MWO for a mech that cannot pull it's own weight in damage.

Your approach is backwards, if all we have is mech killers, they need to make more roles viable not make every mech fit that role.

Davers, on 12 October 2015 - 09:10 PM, said:

Sorry that it's not a game where assault mechs are super powerful and all lighter mechs tremble at their approach.

Your right it is not, but it should have been because then protecting your assaults and organizing your team to take out theirs would be important.