22 replies to this topic

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Obligatory "light 'Mechs are not all scout 'Mechs" post... since that still seems to get lost in the noise, and in this case could give new players bad information about how to use their 'Mechs (or what to expect from other players using them).

Jherek C, on 13 October 2015 - 02:58 AM, said:

3. Lights are for scouting and to nag the enemy. Your purpose is to lock targets, report about flanks and mess up the fireline of the enemy by running among them and try to distract their firepower from your attack lances. Each shot the enemy tries to place on a squirrel, is spared on your assaults. You have speed, use it. Occasionally a light pilot will return to their team into the third line and watch for threats among the legs of the heavier mechs.

This... is an oversimplification of two out of several possible specializations (scouting and harassment) that makes lights sound like they're exclusively for supporting roles. Do lights make good scouts? Yeah, some do, because they can reposition faster than other 'Mechs and therefore get sightlines that other 'Mechs couldn't. But... well, honestly, lights are the most varied class in the game. You just can't put them all in the same box and say "lights are for this."

Some 'Mechs have geometry that is very, very bad for traditional scouting duties, or 'squirreling' as you've suggested. Take the Jenner, for instance. Good firepower, good speed, jets... GIGANTIC CT HITBOX. Squirrel through the middle of an enemy team in that and you die. Ridge-peek to hold locks and you die. Use it as a hit-and-run assassin, which is what it was made for, and suddenly it can pull its weight and then some.

Adders, Kit Foxes, Urbanmechs, and even Panthers are most emphatically not scouts, and aren't even particularly good at flanking enemies. What they are good at is carrying big guns around and punching out 'Mechs with them, a job they do best when they stick with the team and rely on the enemy paying more attention to the bigger, supposedly more dangerous assaults. Now, arguably the slower lights should be considered advanced user platforms, but if a newbie should happen to buy one and use it as you've suggested? All they'll be is a free kill. Slow lights stick with the team- they are glass cannons. If they go out on their own, they tend to draw more fire than if they stick with the bigger, more attractive targets... nevermind that they don't have the legs to run away from striker lights like the FS9 and ACH.

Once you're in a light with a ~30 point alpha strike or more, then your proper role is that of a straight-up killer and frankly you are misusing your 'Mech if all you do with it is run around holding locks and playing squirrel.

A further note on scouting with light 'Mechs (or any 'Mech):

If you want to provide locks, you need a UAV. Period. You carry it on a fast light to get it into position, find a place where the enemy isn't likely to notice it, and deploy it over a cluster of enemies- hopefully without exposing yourself to enemy fire at all (seismic sensor helps with that). A single light 'Mech holding locks is more or less an exercise in suicidal lunacy with the current pinpoint, high-damage, laser+Gauss and ECM meta. You're in a 'Mech that can take exactly one alpha from an enemy heavy or assault before it's either dead or crippled, and you can't hard cancel enemy ECM unless you get super close with your own ECM/BAP. NARC is unreliable (only works if you peg it on the ECM carrier, and only then if you've pegged every ECM carrier in the area) and TAG is suicidal (since it requires you to stare for long periods at things that can instagib you). Bring a UAV (and seismic!) if you're serious about scouting as a role.

Edited by PS WrathOfDeadguy, 18 October 2015 - 02:38 PM.

[Spetulhu]

PS WrathOfDeadguy, on 18 October 2015 - 02:37 PM, said:

Obligatory "light 'Mechs are not all scout 'Mechs" post...

Adders, Kit Foxes, Urbanmechs, and even Panthers are most emphatically not scouts, and aren't even particularly good at flanking enemies. What they are good at is carrying big guns around and punching out 'Mechs with them, a job they do best when they stick with the team and rely on the enemy paying more attention to the bigger, supposedly more dangerous assaults. Once you're in a light with a ~30 point alpha strike or more, then your proper role is that of a straight-up killer and frankly you are misusing your 'Mech if all you do with it is run around holding locks and playing squirrel.

I'd agree on that, as it is a fact I've had to learn the hard way. ;-)

A slower light can be useful and even get kills but it's not by blundering about on your own. I've found my Kit Foxes work best when I manage to blindside some big mech that's already engaged with one of my team's big hitters. They usually have paper-thin back armor if the pilot followed some guide on building it. If I draw attention to myself before that, for example by snapping off a few shots as the lines close, I'm just inviting the target to fire back. And that hurts. Dueling faster lights is also usually a bad idea, better engage it together with another mech.

[Lanzman]

Background: I'm several hundred PUG matches in now. I started in Griffins, went on to Blackjacks (where I enjoy decent success) and also run Locusts. Have not run any heavy or assault mechs yet, not even trial versions.

Mostly agree with everything said so far. My Griffins and Blackjacks are NOT the platform with which to charge headlong into the enemy - I die quickly when I try that. Also not too cool with accidentally blundering into the bad guys because I turned left when I should have turned right. All this is to say that STICK WITH YOUR TEAM is the correct approach. Most mediums are about supporting your heavy/assault mechs, and I personally have found that long-range weapons suit me much more than short range ones do. Stand a bit back, preferably in cover, and snipe at whatever the big boys are hitting. OR, and this must be done judiciously, swing out to one side and distract the bad guys while your heavies move in. Gotta be careful doing this, tho, because that first PPC bolt or AC/2 volley WILL bring return fire at you. And very often a couple annoying lights who want to divide and conquer.

But my Locusts . . . ahhh, my Locusts. Didn't like the bug at first due to the poor cockpit design hampering my visibility, but as I've leveled them up (I have three) and experimented with loadouts I have come to enjoy them maybe more than anything else in my mech bays. Run like hell, shoot and scoot, locate and lock targets, and suprise the crap out of overconfident Spider pilots. I've won matches because I was the one capping the enemy base. Strangely, tho, when in Conquest mode I do poorly because it seems like whichever resource point I run to, the bad guys are already there. Mostly the bug runs short-range weapons which due to its speed is all right, but one of mine has LRM-5s and one has an ER large laser. Both make good snipers. Don't underestimate what two or three fast lights working together can do - with the right lancemates I've torn up heavies and assaults. Heck, I killed a Stormcrow all by myself in one match, but that must have been a really inexperienced player because all he did was stand still (NEVER just stand still, no matter what mech you're in) and try to shoot me.

Lastly, and this I cannot stress enough, my most successful matches are the ones where we talk to each other over voice. NOT whine about how much the other players suck, but call targets, coordinate movement, alert when an enemy UAV is up, stuff like that. I've found text chat largely useless . . . there's just too many things to keep track of in a match and I never see the text chat. Voice comms RULE, period.

MWO is a game with a steep learning curve and a lot of stuff to keep track of while in a match, but it's more fun than human beans should be allowed to have when it's working right.

Edited by Lanzman, 22 October 2015 - 03:41 PM.