40 replies to this topic

[Illya Ghost Bear]

Debuted July 21st, been available for Cbills for a week now......

Pros?
Cons?
Best builds?
Worst builds?

I'll start off by saying, as the title suggests.... I'm underwhelmed.

Hitboxes? Mediocre. Mobility? Nothing to write home about. Hardpoints? Lackluster. Not enough of anything, and not enough tonnage to use large weapons particularly well. ERLL beam duration really hurts in this instance as this would otherwise be an ideal candidate for them.
But facetime to heat ratio, not so much. And MASC? Please don't get me started. I like it on my Executioner (just bought one...so fun! If..also less than spectacular). Such an unimpressive boost.

Pros? Looks.... fantastic. Jumps really well, especially if you do a bionic leap with MASC.

And...that's about it.

As for builds...only two I seem to do OK with are a UAC10 and 2x ERML, and an ERPPC and 2x ERML.

Worst build I've seen..and seen way too often? 2x ERPPC PoopCats. Does not pack near the heat capacity to really do this effectively. If you face opponents that press and get in your face (and you really aren't that fast to escape good light and medium hunters) you have zero volume of fire. IMO, the Nova does the 2xERPPC poptart build far, far better.

OK... enough about me. Let's hear about you?

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Original OG OP medium mech.

RIP all other mediums, all DOA of Shadow Cat.

[Illya Ghost Bear]

Dakota1000, on 13 October 2015 - 03:16 PM, said:

Original OG OP medium mech.

RIP all other mediums, all DOA of Shadow Cat.

shadowcat doa, got it and couldn't agree more.......

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Illya Arkhipova, on 13 October 2015 - 03:17 PM, said:

shadowcat doa, got it and couldn't agree more.......

But really though, slap 2 LPLs on the arms and a medium laser on the torso then ECM, TC1 and heatsinks if you have any room left. Be sneeky and use your positioning powers and its as good as the Loki. Least it has been for me, but I have mine mastered at the moment.

[FupDup]

[Khobai]

I put the shadowcat in the middle of the pack for medium mechs... but thats not saying much. medium mechs in general are in a really bad place right now.

massive 50-70 laser/gauss alphas getting flung around really tends to screw medium mechs over in the worst way. because they have neither the speed of lights or the armor of heavies, and on top of that most mediums have severe scaling issues that make them the size of heavies or in some cases assaults

they really need to do something about TTK to help out medium mechs. They also need to take speed tweak away from the heavy mechs (give each weight class its own unique skill tree) to give back mediums their speed advantage. how is a medium supposed to compete with a timberwolf that goes 90kph? its dumb.

as for the shadowcat... its plagued by a couple issues. specifically clan non-energy weapons and MASC absolutely sucking. They need to nerf clan lasers, buff clan srms/mgs, and buff MASC. As well as fix the aforementioned TTK/heavy speed issues. Then the shadowcat might be competitive.

Edited by Khobai, 13 October 2015 - 03:28 PM.

[Illya Ghost Bear]

Dakota1000, on 13 October 2015 - 03:19 PM, said:

But really though, slap 2 LPLs on the arms and a medium laser on the torso then ECM, TC1 and heatsinks if you have any room left. Be sneeky and use your positioning powers and its as good as the Loki. Least it has been for me, but I have mine mastered at the moment.

tried that build...lacked punch. And that's the thing, I guess, I want to hit hard, then scoot, and do it again... not hit with a feather pillow, scoot, and do it again. I guess my Hunchback's ac20 has spoiled me.

Khobai, on 13 October 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

I put the shadowcat in the middle of the pack for medium mechs... but thats not saying much. medium mechs in general are in a really bad place right now.

massive 50-70 laser/gauss alphas getting flung around really tends to screw medium mechs over in the worst way. because they have neither the speed of lights or the armor of heavies, and on top of that most mediums have severe scaling issues that make them the size of heavies or in some cases assaults

they really need to do something about TTK to help out medium mechs. They also need to take speed tweak away from the heavy mechs (give each weight class its own unique skill tree) to give back mediums their speed advantage. how is a medium supposed to compete with a timberwolf that goes 90kph? its dumb.

as for the shadowcat... its plagued by a couple issues. specifically clan non-energy weapons and MASC absolutely sucking. They need to nerf clan lasers, buff clan srms/mgs, and buff MASC. As well as fix the aforementioned TTK/heavy speed issues. Then the shadowcat might be competitive.

I actually find the UAC10 and 20 to be in a good place now. LB-X are well..no worse than the IS version, and ditto, mostly with missiles.

I think the point may be that Lasers in general, too strong, ballistics borderline (IS ballistics aint too bad, and Gauss is fine, judging by how common it is) and missiles.... not really sure what the heck is up with missiles.

[Khobai]

Quote

I actually find the UAC10 and 20 to be in a good place now.

Except gauss is better in every way. especially since its the perfect complement to lasers.

the problem with the shadowcat is it cant really run gauss/laser builds. the best it can do is gauss and 2 erml which is pretty craptastic.

but rather than turn the shadowcat into a gauss/laser mech like every other clan mech... which is stupid and boring. it makes far more sense to nerf the !@#$ out of gauss and lasers and encourage SRMs/MGs to get used more on the shadowcat.

Edited by Khobai, 13 October 2015 - 03:49 PM.

[Deathlike]

I've already said my peace months ago.

"There are better options" is what sums up my opinion.

[Y E O N N E]

Partial re-post time!

Quote

Shadow Cat Prime "PakPak"
- 10x DHS
- 2x LB-2X + 4T ammo
- 2x C-ER Med Laser

This thing is undoubtedly trash tier, but it's hilarious. Again, don't forget the cool-down module as it makes the difference between bad and fun. I sincerely wish PGI would add AC/2 cool-down modules and make the Clan UACs and ACs not sound like two wooden boards being lightly clapped together, but this'll do in the mean-time! Also, make sure you mount in the arm, because cool-down quirks!

Shadow Cat P "Striker"
- 11x DHS
- 1x UAC/10 + 2.5T ammo
- 3x C-ER Med Laser

This one is legitimately good. There has been a lot of crying over the Shadow Cat's lack of firepower. I'm calling bull on that one. It's hardly any worse than a BJ-1X, and it's certainly superior to a BJ-1. This thing, for example, will put 41 points of damage down-range in the time it takes the C-ERML to finish their burn, using the double-tap. That's 445 meters for max-damage with the laser module, a not-inconsiderable advantage over the BJ-1X. And, as icing on the cake, it can get into funny places that a BJ-1X can't and it can use that MASC to really futz with enemy target tracking with constant jittering. It's awesome. I like it.

Also, you can build it with 2x C-MPL and a C-LPL and pretty much match a BJ-1X in utility. He'll have better punch in your face, but you'll be able to hit him outside of his range. Heat characteristics will be near identical between them, too, and you can squeeze a TC1 into the SCat after Elite in exchange for a DHS for even more range.

Edit: Oh, also opinion: I love this 'Mech and I think it's being underrated simply because people can't bring themselves to ditch the ECM.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 13 October 2015 - 05:39 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 October 2015 - 05:38 PM, said:

Also, you can build it with 2x C-MPL and a C-LPL and pretty much match a BJ-1X in utility.

Wut.......naw, the BJ-1X is superior at the mid/short range poke game, 6 ML and 2 MPL with its quirks is better punch than the Sad Cat's "survivability" can make up for.

Yeonne Greene, on 13 October 2015 - 05:38 PM, said:

Edit: Oh, also opinion: I love this 'Mech and I think it's being underrated simply because people can't bring themselves to ditch the ECM.

Why do you need to ditch the ECM exactly considering you don't really lose anything by not mounting it other than a different position to mount a ballistic? You get another ERML that way I suppose, but it doesn't have the heat to support that nor does it make up for the firepower deficiency it suffers from. If the other left torso omnipods had the +17 health as the ECM pod, that might be a different story, but the armor and ECM is better than another ERML that it can't really support.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 13 October 2015 - 05:55 PM.

[Illya Ghost Bear]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 October 2015 - 05:38 PM, said:

Partial re-post time!



Also, you can build it with 2x C-MPL and a C-LPL and pretty much match a BJ-1X in utility. He'll have better punch in your face, but you'll be able to hit him outside of his range. Heat characteristics will be near identical between them, too, and you can squeeze a TC1 into the SCat after Elite in exchange for a DHS for even more range.

Edit: Oh, also opinion: I love this 'Mech and I think it's being underrated simply because people can't bring themselves to ditch the ECM.

you know the rules.... if it can carry ecm, you must have it! Do you want the scorn of CompLandia?

[Y E O N N E]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 October 2015 - 05:45 PM, said:

Wut.......naw, the BJ-1X is superior at the mid/short range poke game, 6 ML and 2 MPL with its quirks is better punch than the Sad Cat's "survivability" can make up for.

Well, consider this: I run and have always run (long before Clans) my BJ-1X with 6xML and 2x SL on a STD 280 with 16 DHS. It is absolutely phenomenal, and is my primary carry 'Mech (because my only Meta 'Mech is a Stalker and I suck in assaults). Those small lasers, as you can imagine, rarely get fired. So, if I can consistently do 600, 700 damage games with the BJ-1X firing only 30 damage usually outside of its optimum...I can probably do the same with a Shadow Cat firing 29 damage with a longer optimum. And, once you elite it, you can probably ditch one DHS to get in your choice of ECM or a TC1.

The extra ERML is so very, very worth it for the UAC/10 build, though, and that build is, in my experience and opinion, the strongest build for this 'Mech by far. The heat is no more of an issue than it would be on a Blackjack.

Is the BJ-1X better? Yes, I think so. Still, I honestly believe that, if an isXL-equipped BJ-1X can be T2 High, this one can make T2 Low. Its hit-boxes aren't even mediocre, they can spread pretty well.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 October 2015 - 06:30 PM, said:

The extra ERML is so very, very worth it for the UAC/10 build, though, and that build is, in my experience and opinion, the strongest build for this 'Mech by far.

I'm not going to completely agree, it is the better PUG stomper, but it isn't the better coordinated match build. Dakka velocity is still what kills it in usefulness for those kind of matches.

Yeonne Greene, on 13 October 2015 - 06:30 PM, said:

Still, I honestly believe that, if an isXL-equipped BJ-1X can be T2 High

You say that like the XL BJ-1X is somehow worse or something, the XL BJ-1X is great, and probably one of the best PUG stomping mediums in the game because of how powerful the mid range poke game is in PUG matches. 2 MPL and a LPL on a Sad Cat just doesn't have the staying power, it can't repeat its alpha quite as much as the BJ-1X can.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 13 October 2015 - 06:59 PM.

[NephyrisX]

Don't bother if you want a cookie cutter laser vomit/Gauss Rifle mech.

[ShinobiHunter]

I haven't played them as much as I would like to have, but so far I really enjoy them. The 2 LPL+ECM build works pretty well for me. I just stick with the fatties as much as possible. They draw most of the fire, I give them ECM coverage and help soften their targets. I think all the major pros and cons of the chassis have been thoroughly gone over. I've been playing Adders some lately and they really feel like small Shadowcats, IMO. Unfortunately, Scats don't seem any tougher than an Adder, or really pack any more firepower. They seem slightly more mobile, probably because of the JJs. All in all, they are a lot of fun, and I can pull my weight in one.

[Cupid and Psyche _]

I like my Adder more.

The Shadowcat looks nice, though

[Lightfoot]

Could have some CT armor quirks, this area takes damage very fast. Most Medium mechs are strangely weaker than Lights and Heavies in MWO. You can learn to play the Shadow Cat, but you can learn to play anything so a slight buff is a good idea.

[Y E O N N E]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 October 2015 - 06:58 PM, said:

I'm not going to completely agree, it is the better PUG stomper, but it isn't the better coordinated match build. Dakka velocity is still what kills it in usefulness for those kind of matches.


You say that like the XL BJ-1X is somehow worse or something, the XL BJ-1X is great, and probably one of the best PUG stomping mediums in the game because of how powerful the mid range poke game is in PUG matches. 2 MPL and a LPL on a Sad Cat just doesn't have the staying power, it can't repeat its alpha quite as much as the BJ-1X can.

I'm not saying the BJ-1X isn't better, because it is. That my scores are consistently ~15-20% higher with it show as much. But the SHC isn't that much worse.

Also, I wouldn't personally take an XL Blackjack. I always lose sides in a fight using the BJ, and it has turned into something of an advantage, being able to surprise my assailant by not going down when expected. Often, it results in a kill or kills, too.

At any rate, I just think the SCat's ability to re-position and safely dump a sustainable ~30-40 point alpha from 360+ meters is being a bit undervalued. It's not a Storm Crow; even a BJ-1X is not a Storm Crow. But it's certainly a very capable machine in its current state and I'm not at all underwhelmed with it.

[Illya Ghost Bear]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 October 2015 - 08:15 PM, said:

I'm not saying the BJ-1X isn't better, because it is. That my scores are consistently ~15-20% higher with it show as much. But the SHC isn't that much worse.

Also, I wouldn't personally take an XL Blackjack. I always lose sides in a fight using the BJ, and it has turned into something of an advantage, being able to surprise my assailant by not going down when expected. Often, it results in a kill or kills, too.

At any rate, I just think the SCat's ability to re-position and safely dump a sustainable ~30-40 point alpha from 360+ meters is being a bit undervalued. It's not a Storm Crow; even a BJ-1X is not a Storm Crow. But it's certainly a very capable machine in its current state and I'm not at all underwhelmed with it.

15-20% isn't "That much worse"?

15-20% is pretty frikking huge, especially the higher your play tier.