44 replies to this topic

[Phantom Limb]

PholkLorr, on 13 October 2015 - 09:10 PM, said:

Even in most other FPS shooters, people like to know if they actually did damage or not.

In those other FPS, the edges of the world's objects are perfect and what you would expect. Ie. a wall blocks damage up till the edge of the wall, not beyond.

Not so in MWO. A wall/buildings/trees/anything has about 2 cm worth of invisible pixel damage proof glass that let you see through them but do 0 dmg. Imagine how frustrating it is if a player blows all his heat doing pokes, not knowing if his laser actually hit or not. At the end of the round he gets crap damage and he feels cheated and pissed.

Furthermore, i think removing the red crosshair flash detracts from people's concept of fun. Fun = you shoot something, you know you hit. There needs to be a visual cue to let you know you hit. Without the red flash, you wouldn't know if you hit or not. Especially since the mechs don't spray blood or contort when hit. The only visual cue you have is a small damage glow that is very hard to see at long range.

Lastly, i think the last thing anyone was thinking about when they called for a 'rebalance' was the removal of a mechanic that most FPS shooters have expected to be there.

This doesn't "balance" anything at all since PGI is diminishing the fun for BOTH IS and Clans AND lights AND meds AND heavies AND Assaults.

Nobody asked for this change, why fix what ain't broke?! No. In this case, Why break what is fixed?!

From the PTA phase 2 notes:
"Reticle mechanics when target is locked

The targeting reticle will now change color and shape when a hit is detected on a ‘Mech that is target-locked."

Seems that there will be a damage indicator. Just that it will only work when you are locked on a target. Makes sense to me

[KuroNyra]

People say "Let's it first".

Well sorry, but no amount of test will make me accept that. That is a ****** idea, it's already kind of hard knowing when your doing damage when using he LRMS has mortar (no lock on, target a place and launch there. Generally where the ennemy is going to. Work sometimes.)

And sorry, but I want to know if I do damage to the guy that is well beyong my sensor range but who is at the limit of my weapons range.

[Widowmaker1981]

clownwarlord, on 14 October 2015 - 05:46 AM, said:

[Unapproved post]

Please explain to me how you are supposed to target lock a hull down stalker/banshee/battlemaster/whatever else mech with high mounted weapons? I assume you are aware that >50% of your mech must be in LOS in order to provide a dorito?

Now explain how, when firing back at above mentioned hull down mech, you are going to know if you're hitting one of the huge numbers of invisible walls or actually hitting your target, when there is no visual indicator anymore? You're not, thats how.

if they remove all the invisible walls from the game, id be ok with this change. I do not believe them to be technically capable of that however, considering how many there are, and how VERY bad they are on their latest map.

Edited by GM Patience, 15 October 2015 - 01:50 PM.

[sycocys]

Do other fps games show damage when you hit your target?

I'd have to drop and check on ac's but I'm pretty sure the flash/explode when they hit.

Can tell you for 100% certain though that lasers heat up and show "melting" armor for at least a few seconds when you hit your target.

No one out there is capable of looking at the mech they are shooting at to see if the armor is bright red?

[Widowmaker1981]

sycocys, on 14 October 2015 - 06:08 AM, said:

Do other fps games show damage when you hit your target?

I'd have to drop and check on ac's but I'm pretty sure the flash/explode when they hit.

Can tell you for 100% certain though that lasers heat up and show "melting" armor for at least a few seconds when you hit your target.

No one out there is capable of looking at the mech they are shooting at to see if the armor is bright red?

Visual effects are client side, game is server side hit detection. Visual effects can occur when you actually missed acording to the server. Hence the need for some server side hit confirmation (flashing reticule)

[Clownwarlord]

Widowmaker1981, on 14 October 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:

Please explain to me how you are supposed to target lock a hull down stalker/banshee/battlemaster/whatever else mech with high mounted weapons? I assume you are aware that >50% of your mech must be in LOS in order to provide a dorito?

Now explain how, when firing back at above mentioned hull down mech, you are going to know if you're hitting one of the huge numbers of invisible walls or actually hitting your target, when there is no visual indicator anymore? You're not, thats how.

if they remove all the invisible walls from the game, id be ok with this change. I do not believe them to be technically capable of that however, considering how many there are, and how VERY bad they are on their latest map.

TAG and NARC ... so get use to one less medium laser

Also use advanced zoom and you can see if damage is being done to a mech.

Edited by clownwarlord, 14 October 2015 - 06:12 AM.

[KuroNyra]

sycocys, on 14 October 2015 - 06:08 AM, said:

Do other fps games show damage when you hit your target?

I'd have to drop and check on ac's but I'm pretty sure the flash/explode when they hit.

Can tell you for 100% certain though that lasers heat up and show "melting" armor for at least a few seconds when you hit your target.

No one out there is capable of looking at the mech they are shooting at to see if the armor is bright red?

Except what is showed for the armor is client side. You can have impact showing, but no damage done.
So basicly, your screen say you hit him. But the Server say nay and deal 0 damage.


War Thunder can also do that. You have impact on the ennemy plane. But the game consider you haven't hit him.


And yes, you do have damage indicator in others games like World of Tank. War Thunder, and I clearly remember stuff like that in other FPS...
Team Fortress 2 got an option for that where you have a "ding" each time you hit your ennemy, WITH the HP removed showed.

Edited by KuroNyra, 14 October 2015 - 06:11 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

clownwarlord, on 14 October 2015 - 06:10 AM, said:

TAG and NARC ... so get use to one less medium laser

Also use advanced zoom and you can see if damage is being done to a mech.

No thanks, ill just play as the hull down banshee/battlemaster/stalker, thanks.

Please come to the forum complaining when you expend all of your ammo into an invisible wall while i shred your mech with OP IS LPLs.

[KuroNyra]

clownwarlord, on 14 October 2015 - 06:10 AM, said:

TAG and NARC ... so get use to one less medium laser

Also use advanced zoom and you can see if damage is being done to a mech.

NARC doesn't work at long range.
TAG are far from efficient to hold a lock.
Lights mech can have them, but a tag on a heavy or assault mech? That's a complete waste of firepower.


But it CAN be funny to see hunchback 4P with 9 tag on them!

[Troutmonkey]

Phantom Limb, on 14 October 2015 - 05:56 AM, said:

Seems that there will be a damage indicator. Just that it will only work when you are locked on a target. Makes sense to me

How am I supposed to know if I hit a mech, hit an invisible wall near said mech, or if HSR just crapped out on me because I live in Australia?

Critical UI feedback shouldn't be used as a balancing mechanic.
It's like if AC became too powerful and PGI said f**k it, lets remove ammo counters, that'll balance them!

[Ghogiel]

Deathlike, on 13 October 2015 - 10:06 PM, said:

What's worse is that it "indirectly" covers up PGI's bad hitreg.

^

[Hans Von Lohman]

Meh. It was a weird addition, but I can see the logic of it.

They're trying to make having a lock on mean something, but not have it go overboard. This change with the crosshair feedback is probably the softest change in the who patch notes. It literally affects nothing in game play.

However, it makes a certain bit of logic. How did your crosshair know you hit something before? Space magic?

[Illya Ghost Bear]

Widowmaker1981, on 14 October 2015 - 05:25 AM, said:

This a VERY good point.

PGI, if you are listening, you CAN NOT remove reticule flash on dmg, unless you first go through every single map and remove every single invisible wall. Mechs hull down behind a hill / wall cannot be targeted due to >50% of the mech being concealed. People NEED to know they are doing dmg when they are visually hitting.

not sure why this is the case? Eyeball mk 1 works well for that info.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Duke ramulots, on 14 October 2015 - 03:42 AM, said:

I always play FPS's on hardcore when possible. No HUD or hit indicators. If there were a game mode where you didn't even get a "you killed *****" message I'd play that as well.

I wish I could just erase 50% of MWO's hud....

two crosshairs for weapons...check
weapons board....check
Mini map...check
My paperdoll....check
Enemy paperdoll...check

Everything else....GONE

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 14 October 2015 - 04:46 PM.

[PholkLorr]

Shooting invisible wall = not fun.
Not knowing whether i hit or not = not fun.

Hit = fun.
Miss = adjust accordingly. Maybe there was an invisible wall, Maybe there was lag and i have to adjust. Adjust and get a hit to have fun.
Don't know if hit or miss = HOW TO ADJUST?!

There's damage indicators in COD, BF, Quake, UT and <insert name of SUCCESSFUL/POPULAR game>.

Only CS doesn't have damage indicators. But battles in CS typically take place at what would be in MWO, 50m to 300m range. Additionally, their maps are very clear. No stupid foliage or haze preventing you from getting visual confirmation that you've hit your target or not.

ADDITIONALLY, TTK in these higher skilled FPSes are a fraction of what it is in MWO, so you get the "feedback" (fun from killing, or die) within 0.1-3 seconds in most cases (lol@ MWO ppl whining that TTK in MWO is too high. Every other FPS has you dead in 0.1 second to 3 seconds).

I wonder how much support these massively popular games will lose if they remove damage indicators. Games that even if they had lost 90% of their playerbase, would still be more popular than MWO.

BF, one of the games with somewhat reduced visibility, is still WAY MORE VISIBLE than MWO. And it has damage indicators! And that's not even counting the stupid night and dusk maps on MWO yet!

Edited by PholkLorr, 14 October 2015 - 09:42 PM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Illya Arkhipova, on 14 October 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

not sure why this is the case? Eyeball mk 1 works well for that info.

how can you tell the difference between hitting an invisible wall 1m in front of your target, or the target itself, when you get no feedback? If the wall is halfway along the firing path, sure you can tell. If its right by the target like it often is? You could be spamming fire into a black hole, thinking you're hitting.

[Alistair Winter]

As a general principle, I want as much realism as possible. I think the lack of damage confirmation is a good thing.

[Thorqemada]

Unbelieveable how a non issue becomes such an big issue...so if we want to have a "minimal viable info war" MWO needs it to stay the way it is on PTS!

Improvements may be found but negating Infowar it is not an improvement!

Edited by Thorqemada, 16 October 2015 - 02:58 AM.

[Piney II]

And all you need to do to get the hit indicator and even more target info is lock the target.................................

I guess all of the pew pew and gauss snipers will have move in a bit from all the way across the map to get that lock.

They might have to actually join the fight and get their armor scratched instead of drinking coffee and playing long range whack-a-mole.

[Widowmaker1981]

Piney, on 16 October 2015 - 03:12 AM, said:

And all you need to do to get the hit indicator and even more target info is lock the target.................................

I guess all of the pew pew and gauss snipers will have move in a bit from all the way across the map to get that lock.

They might have to actually join the fight and get their armor scratched instead of drinking coffee and playing long range whack-a-mole.

Are you aware that if your mech is >50% concealed, you are not counted as in LOS, and are not targetable? And that quite some large number of mechs have suffciently high mounted cockpits and hardpoints that they can (and do) shoot from hull down positions which conceal more than 50% of their mech?

How do you target those guys? You know, the ones most likely to be behind an invisible wall?