180 replies to this topic

[l33tworks]

I am not normally one to care too much about changes devs make. Sure I speak my mind but i dont "rage" or get up in arms over it. I don't care about clans vs IS or balance in general, I just still try to have fun and use whatever works.

But for the first time in MWO History, I am Pi$$sed of with a PROPOSED change, because its so fundamental and game breakingly ludicrous

I am pissed. Very pissed with the little line here.

"The targeting reticle will no longer flash when a hit is detected on a ‘Mech that is not target-locked."
no longer flash
no longer flash
no longer flash


I hardly ever target enemy mechs even in the current state of the game, but even if I am FORCED to, just to get a reticle flash, I will not able to in MANY cases. Therefore there will be no reticle flash, in MANY cases

Now there will be scenarios where I will be shooting mechs in plain sight and not know whether I am doing damage?
How can they possibly think thats ok? Do PGI not realise its a server side game? How will i know I am hitting a mech? Its the same as a Bank account that doesn't let you see how much money you have in it. Its Insane.

The explosion and weapon effects are all CLIENT side and has never correlated with whether I am doing damage or not, the reticle flash is SERVER side which is the only thing that matters. Its the only way for me to know the damage I have placed has been confirmed by the server. Its not realistic but its necessary for a network based game. IF this was real life, you wouldnt need a reticle flash, IF YOU HIT YOU KNOW YOU HIT, but this is a game, and it doesn't work like that.

Next step is they will start to "pull" or retract damage that landed on non-targeted mechs as balance mechanic for matchmaker because the shot will be taken as missed, but really it just didn't register on purpose and you wont have any way of knowing. Now that you have no reticle flash, how will you know?!

I know why PGi did this. They don't want people to "feel around" for mechs without seeing them on their radar by waving a laser around. Hardly anyone does that now, and if they rarely ever do, its only lasers, but my suggestion is to increase the needed duration for reticle flash with lasers, but NOT REMOVE IT ENTIRELY. For example if greater than 60% of a burn time landed, show you reticle flash. OR if you hit with a ballistic, show flash. No one will waste ballistics to feel for mechs anyway

Edited by l33tworks, 14 October 2015 - 06:37 AM.

[Hotthedd]

Press "R".

...and switch to decaf.

Seriously, this is going to be on the TEST SERVER. If it doesn't work as intended it will not make it into the live game...hopefully. But if it DOES work to make targeting an enemy worthwhile (which it is, because your team sees that an enemy is targeted) then it does not break the game.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Calm down. It's PTS change. Last PTS had NOTHING brought up to the actual game server. Not a thing.

I don't like this change too. Most people don't like it. There are some serious arguments against it (e.g. it's not player-friendly), it's confusing because map collision meshes eats up your projectiles etc. I doubt we'll ever see it on the live server.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 14 October 2015 - 03:51 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Test servers gonna test.

PGI is going to see how it works out. If there is overwhelming negative feedback, it probably won't be added in the main game anyway.

I think they are just looking for ways (even small ones) to make info warfare more critical and this is one of them.

The community wanted more role warfare, PGI is trying to deliver.

[l33tworks]

Hotthedd, on 14 October 2015 - 03:48 AM, said:

Press "R".

...and switch to decaf.

Seriously, this is going to be on the TEST SERVER. If it doesn't work as intended it will not make it into the live game...hopefully. But if it DOES work to make targeting an enemy worthwhile (which it is, because your team sees that an enemy is targeted) then it does not break the game.

Test server means its a change they have come up with and already coded in the game, so unless people get up in arms over it and complain like crazy, history has shown they leave it in.
This is not the type of thing people get up in arms over, meaning its very very likely to keep staying until production if they don't realize whats going on, so don't say its only A TEST SERVER.

How will pressing R work on, a mech over 500m? A mech with ECM? A mech even closer to you, you will need to wait 3-5 seconds, but then its too later. Either Rticle flash works always or it doesn't at all. there is no in between. So don't say "Press R" like its some kind of solution. It wont. I don't think people realise how empty and dull its going to feel to shoot stuff and not get a hit confirmation.

Edited by l33tworks, 14 October 2015 - 03:59 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

MeiSooHaityu, on 14 October 2015 - 03:55 AM, said:

Test servers gonna test.

PGI is going to see how it works out. If there is overwhelming negative feedback, it probably won't be added in the main game anyway.

I think they are just looking for ways (even small ones) to make info warfare more critical and this is one of them.

The community wanted more role warfare, PGI is trying to deliver.

of course there is negative feedback - its the internet - never admit that you like something.

with all the "negative" feedback based on the "information" only - i think PGI is glad that they made MWO stupid simple and fast.
cause thinking "men" is an extinct race

[LordNothing]

i dont know if its a good idea. the flash kind of gives you essential feedback if your shots hit or not. i have a feeling the only purpose its removal poses is to annoy people into using the r key (which they should be doing anyway, for intel). still, with the speed required for successful hill humping there just isnt enough time to peek, lock and fire. i was happy with the flash being a 'you got points' indicator (or for indirect weapons to indicate if you are hitting target or rocks, but since you need locks for that kind of thing the point is moot).

however this decision is not so much of a game breaking thing as an annoyance.

l33tworks, on 14 October 2015 - 03:59 AM, said:

Test server means its a change they have come up with and already coded in the game, so unless people get up in arms over it and complain like crazy, history has shown they leave it in.
This is not the type of thing people get up in arms over, meaning its very very likely to keep staying until production if they don't realize whats going on, so don't say its only A TEST SERVER.

How will pressing R work on, a mech over 500m? A mech with ECM? A mech even closer to you, you will need to wait 3-5 seconds, but then its too later. Either Rticle flash works always or it doesn't at all. there is no in between. So don't say "Press R" like its some kind of solution. It wont. I don't think people realise how empty and dull its going to feel to shoot stuff and not get a hit confirmation.

if you read the part about the fairly severe ecm nerfs, you will realize that getting and keeping locks will be orders of magnitude easier.

i think pgi is putting the science back into computer science here. the last pts session was really just to establish a control. they are gonna use that data for comparative analysis with subsequent pts sessions. i dont think they are going to rush it into the game. i think the plan was to do a series of tests to get information they need about balence to find out what works and what doesnt. then they will roll all the approved changes into the game. then everyone will hate it (it is pgi after all).

Edited by LordNothing, 14 October 2015 - 04:16 AM.

[l33tworks]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 14 October 2015 - 03:50 AM, said:

Calm down.

[Galenit]

l33tworks, on 14 October 2015 - 03:59 AM, said:

How will pressing R work on, a mech over 500m? A mech with ECM? A mech even closer to you, you will need to wait 3-5 seconds, but then its too later. Either Rticle flash works always or it doesn't at all. there is no in between. So don't say "Press R" like its some kind of solution. It wont. I don't think people realise how empty and dull its going to feel to shoot stuff and not get a hit confirmation.

Use a combination of teamwork, bap, cap, tag, narc and you will have the same red flashing as now.
It only punishes people that dont use r and people that have to play with peoples not using r.

I dont know when the flashwhenyouuhit were inventend in gaming, but i remember a lot of games i played where this crutch was not implemented.

[Archie4Strings]

I actually do not see such a big problem here!
Usually your eyes should be good enough to see if you hit a target. The Server/Client issue... who cares? That is not a big problem, i dont recognize many hits without doing damage. In the end its still a computer game..., mistakes happen, and in this case, they dont happen often.

One thing what i like about this change is, that when f.E. in the jungle map, somebody is up on a hill, another one is down on the ground under the trees, people shoot through the leafes and they know if they hit or not, if nobody locked that target! So this wont be a thing anymore now!

And also: It is actually more realistic!

[Catra Lanis]

LordNothing, on 14 October 2015 - 04:04 AM, said:

i dont know if its a good idea. the flash kind of gives you essential feedback if your shots hit or not. i have a feeling the only purpose its removal poses is to annoy people into using the r key (which they should be doing anyway, for intel). still, with the speed required for successful hill humping there just isnt enough time to peek, lock and fire. i was happy with the flash being a 'you got points' indicator (or for indirect weapons to indicate if you are hitting target or rocks, but since you need locks for that kind of thing the point is moot).

however this decision is not so much of a game breaking thing as an annoyance.

I'd argue that it's partially gamebreaking, especially for new players that don't know how many invisible walls there are in the various maps.

[Rushin Roulette]

Didnt you know... Mech Warrior is now the thinking mans shooter.

[627]

if you have pissed yourself so much maybe you should take a shower. Maybe a cold shower would help to to cool down.

First, if you want to give feedback, why not do it in the right forum section, Second, test haven't even started, yet. Third, why aren't you targeting a mech? this is one of the most fundamental things in this game and you may want to try the new tutorial to learn the basics of this game.

[MeiSooHaityu]

LordNothing, on 14 October 2015 - 04:04 AM, said:

i dont know if its a good idea. the flash kind of gives you essential feedback if your shots hit or not. i have a feeling the only purpose its removal poses is to annoy people into using the r key (which they should be doing anyway, for intel). still, with the speed required for successful hill humping there just isnt enough time to peek, lock and fire. i was happy with the flash being a 'you got points' indicator (or for indirect weapons to indicate if you are hitting target or rocks, but since you need locks for that kind of thing the point is moot).

however this decision is not so much of a game breaking thing as an annoyance.

I also think the removal of the reticule flash may reduce the occurrences of longer range shots with weapons like dual gauss. If a player has no visual indicator to verify a hit at long range, they may not fire so as to not waste ammo on shots not connecting.

Similarly with energy weapons, players may become more conservative with long shots in some occasions because heat builds up and can hinder your ability to defend yourself if an enemy sneaks up and starts attacking.

At least at mid to shorter ranges armor glow (if turned on) will give a clear indicator of a successful hit.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 14 October 2015 - 04:15 AM.

[CygnusX7]

Just goes to show how out of it I am.. I've often found myself wondering if the reticle flash could be more accurate.

[Karl Streiger]

reticle flash = you PPC shot hits a building 500m before the target and turns red?!!!!

maybe that the thing the OP mentioned with client calculation - i missed that shot from my point of view...i did it clearly no mistake here. but somehow the server said: well thats a hit.....
maybe he did calculate the travel path of the PPC barrel - the last 400ms before the shot and did the same with the target - and when there was a LOS during any of those times its a "hit"

Edited by Karl Streiger, 14 October 2015 - 04:18 AM.

[QuulDrah]

Artillery Strikes now fall silently in the dark...
Air Strikes are fire and forget, no more feedback...

this is seriously NOT a good idea :-(

[CDLord HHGD]

Sigh.....

It is one part of a large set of changes. Who knows how well it'll work or not in the greater scheme of things. To focus on one point without taking into account all the rest, well.... You're beyond help.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

i dont care fanbois, but its SHOULD flash when hit. Otherwise its only excuse for devs, that cannot create good hit detection.

[Doman Hugin]

Think of it as added realism, if your targeting computer doesn't know there is a mech there, hows it ment to tell you if you've hit it.